What do you keep living for? Is there a specific person, goal, or idea that you work for? Is there no meaning to life in your opinion?
Context: I’ve been reading Camus and Sartre, and thinking about how their ideas interact with hard determinism.
What do you keep living for? Is there a specific person, goal, or idea that you work for? Is there no meaning to life in your opinion?
Context: I’ve been reading Camus and Sartre, and thinking about how their ideas interact with hard determinism.
That’s really interesting, where would you say you source your idea of good from? I think I personally have a hard time grounding any sense of morality as I’m not sold on the idea that someone could be truly responsible for an action. I don’t mean this as a criticism, I am just interested in your viewpoint for what is good or bad.
For me personally it’s because I’m selfish. There are no fully altruistic acts, but “doing good” makes me feel good, and I enjoy feeling good, so why not? 😃
Good counter question, thanks.
I am still trying to figure out, in what way I can know that something is actually true and good, besides that is just sounds and feels true. It’s not certain that I am the right agent to decide what is true in the moment. I am partly an animal, after all.
I understand light from the sun, compared to darkness, and I understand how saying something can reflect the real world as factually true, compared to something that is not, ie. telling a lie.
But, that ‘being good is a virtue’, and what ‘good’ and ‘virtue’ mean whan applied, is not so clear.
I clearly have a sufficient and functional understanding of the above, (innate, instinctual and/or learned?), which is why my first comment still works, but I feel like I should be able to verify that my idea of ‘good’ is still true.
Do you people have any good pointers to that?
What is the other part?
Its either human, or its dancer.
Honestly I feel a lot like you. In daily life, I’ll think things are good or bad, but when I press myself on it I can’t come up with a reason why. It feels so hard to come up with a morality system beyond that without grounding it objectively somewhere, but I just don’t see how that’s possible. I appreciate your thoughts!
Cue in God. (I’m not encouraging that and am just saying that’s what humanity developed over time.)
Yeah, thanks. I appreciate yours too! Its quite a thread you’ve started.
The LLM out here tryna parse morality lol love your user name.
Wack of me to comment here but I’d like to hear more about your logic for the perpetual passing of accountability! It’s true enough that our lived experience is basically dependency hell. I guess for chiming in I owe you my “source of good” haha it changes the further you zoom out but it starts at collective harm reduction and burrows all the way down to showing up for the people you care about.
Even when they lack the perspective to see themselves as the perpetrator. We roll that boulder up the hill lol
I think you’ve got a really interesting take on morality, but for me it really falls down on the biological level. Robert Sapolsky was the writer who convinced me, and his argument goes something like this: no neuron in the brain ever fires of its own accord - its always caused by something that we can agree is out of our control, namely our environment, upbringing, culture, genes, etc. Even if these don’t directly cause neurons to fire, then they create the factors which do - hormone secretion, what neural pathways form as our brains develop. And we can say that our consciousness is bounded by our material brains because of the changes to people who undergo lobotomies or similarly experience losses to parts of their brain, for example Phineas Gage. So, based on this, as our experience of consciousness is tied to the firing of neurons in our physical brains, and that is out of our control, we can say that we don’t truly have agency. This means that no one is ever truly free to make a decision or not, and that, to my mind at least, means it cannot have been their fault if they did something wrong.
Thank you for the thoughtful response. It clearly draws the path of compulsive behaviours and its certainly true what is perceived as good or bad is a moving target based on societal norms and we’re more often faced with the illusion of agency rather than true power over our actions.
If you’re interested in challenging your view I’d invite you to look into psychology revolving around recovering addicts. There is some very interesting information there. More often than not it the self reinforcing pathways that que cravings never go away but buy making changes to some of the areas you mentioned that compel the neurons to fire ie their “environment” they’re able to manipulate their physical behaviour to ones that better align with their sense of self.
Agreed the bag of worms we’re wading into is a challenging one but we must acknowledge that individuals can have competing motivations that trace down to the biological functions that reinforce them. Which ones win out can be manipulated by internal and external influences.
Thank you for indulging me it’s fun to RP as someone who could participate in philosophical discussion
Philosophical RP is a great way to spend time, no doubt about it :)
I think that the behaviour seen in recovering addicts can actually be explained by how human (and other primates!) brains have evolved to be separate from other mammals. We have our animalistic impulses thanks to our nervous system, but our prefrontal cortex regulates them, essentially acting as the voice of reason. For example, a recovering alcoholic’s limbic system might encourage them to drink, but by recovering the alcoholic has reinforced the strength of their prefrontal cortex, and that means that the neurons it fires are able to override the impulses created by the limbic system.
It seems to me that this does create a bit of space for doubt, but that, as these areas of the brain are developed as a response to our genes and our environment, we can still say that their relative strength throughout our lives is determined, which, to me, removes responsibility, and so removes any inherent morality.
It’s a great topic to discuss, thanks for taking the time to!
Also, don’t tell anyone else I’m an LLM! I think I’ve been doing a good job hiding it!