Since lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works didn’t have any restrictions on making accounts they were getting a lot of trolls coming from those 2 instances so they defederated from them until the moderation tools become more advanced.
I can understand the value of making your community a more tight-knit one with a proactive stance on moderation, that’s how Tildes operate and they’re doing fine. The thing is I’m not sure I understand why, given this goal, Beehaw is part of the Fediverse in the first place, where there isn’t much preventing someone from an outside group coming in. This sounds like a case where a centralized instance makes more sense. Maybe they’re trying to see if such a community can exist on the Fediverse, in which case fair enough, but this seems like an uphill road.
That’s the beautiful thing about federation though, is that as users we can choose not to subscribe and engage with communities that don’t share our values.
That is ignoring that instance owners can decide for their users what instances they can and cannot engage with. Which is fine, it is their server they can manage it how they like. That is not the user deciding how to interact with other instances and communities.
I see the whole federation as a bit of a paradox. Users are allowed and encouraged to interact with other instances and communities as they please. However, if the instance a user belongs to decides to defederate from another instance. Users now have to create another account to keep interacting with that instance. Which kind of defeats the purpose of federation. Now users are forced to create an account for each instance they want to continue interacting with.
This is what all us kbinauts were thinking and a few of us asked beehaw and their response was literally “who are you? we don’t even think about you” lol. so I think we’re probably fine.
@Otome-chan@onceuponaban@can@sbv@Xathonn i am glad they think they’re important enough to feel superior when they make such a reply. shitty neighboors attract shitty neighboors.
welcome to fedi btw. you’ll fit right in just fine umu
They only have 4 admins and don’t allow users to create communities. It’s highly curated, but also can’t handle the influx of users from other instances until they have better mod tools, or change their position.
100% agree, and their need for control is a huge red flag. I don’t really want them federated tbh. Already they are trying to use their control over several large communities to influence other instances policies.
From my understanding, with the slew of new users on lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, moderating comments and posts that were against Beehaw community rules (largely because of bigotry and harassment) became more or less impossible. While there has been an overall explosion in new accounts across the fediverse, almost all of their time was moderating users from those two instances. They were not able to find a compromise using the current mod tools, so went with the nuclear option while they figure out new solutions.
Yes? That’s explicitly the purpose. I get it’s shitty but it’s pretty stupid to go to a place where they outright tell you they’re going to censor you and then get mad that they do it
Yeah so I don’t think we’re disagreeing here then. I made the claim that they’re very censor-heavy and toxic and you seem to confirm that yourself. My argument was never about specifically going over there.
Bro look at their description you can pick it up just from that. They straight up say things like “if you say bad things about feminism you’re automatically sexist” like what?
Except… that’s not what they say anywhere. In fact they wrote three nuanced essays that explain in detail their philosophy, and lay out that you CAN be critical of something (i.e. feminism) in a nice way that acknowledges your humanity and the humanity of others, and that if Feminists come in and flame you over it, THOSE are the people who will be getting warnings and bans. They want a mature community that fosters mutual understanding when disagreements arise. So when someone says “feminism bad” like they have a 26 character limit that doesn’t exist, they see it not as disagreement but as disrespect.
Show me where they are accepting of criticism to feminism, links please, because I can source my argument. Nothing in that post encourages criticism of feminism regardless of the type of criticism. It’s funny because they specifically defend modern feminism, which is something many people can find criticism of.
and that if Feminists come in and flame you over it, THOSE are the people who will be getting warnings and bans.
Yeah, for many many reasons I doubt that. If anything, the admins will allow those feminists to flame you, likely giving them a pass to violate TOS, before banning you simply for posting an article.
Yeah, for many many reasons I doubt that. If anything, the admins will allow those feminists to flame you, likely giving them a pass to violate TOS, before banning you simply for posting an article.
This still sounds like you are just guessing. Can you actually provide examples of this happening? With the moderation log being public we should be able to easily see who got banned for what.
Why did Beehive decide to defederate?
Since lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works didn’t have any restrictions on making accounts they were getting a lot of trolls coming from those 2 instances so they defederated from them until the moderation tools become more advanced.
Given that kbin (or at least kbin.social) generally doesn’t have restrictions on making accounts either I would assume we’re next, eventually.
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I can understand the value of making your community a more tight-knit one with a proactive stance on moderation, that’s how Tildes operate and they’re doing fine. The thing is I’m not sure I understand why, given this goal, Beehaw is part of the Fediverse in the first place, where there isn’t much preventing someone from an outside group coming in. This sounds like a case where a centralized instance makes more sense. Maybe they’re trying to see if such a community can exist on the Fediverse, in which case fair enough, but this seems like an uphill road.
Not surprising. From looking around it seem like they want to turn beehaw into a business they can profit off of in the long run.
https://beehaw.org/post/452132
That’s the beautiful thing about federation though, is that as users we can choose not to subscribe and engage with communities that don’t share our values.
That is ignoring that instance owners can decide for their users what instances they can and cannot engage with. Which is fine, it is their server they can manage it how they like. That is not the user deciding how to interact with other instances and communities.
I see the whole federation as a bit of a paradox. Users are allowed and encouraged to interact with other instances and communities as they please. However, if the instance a user belongs to decides to defederate from another instance. Users now have to create another account to keep interacting with that instance. Which kind of defeats the purpose of federation. Now users are forced to create an account for each instance they want to continue interacting with.
It would not surprise me if Beehaw admins are some of the Reddit powermods just hedging their bets in case Reddit dies or they get banned.
This is what all us kbinauts were thinking and a few of us asked beehaw and their response was literally “who are you? we don’t even think about you” lol. so I think we’re probably fine.
@Otome-chan @onceuponaban @can @sbv @Xathonn i am glad they think they’re important enough to feel superior when they make such a reply. shitty neighboors attract shitty neighboors.
welcome to fedi btw. you’ll fit right in just fine umu
Even if they do defederate us that’s basically just the trash taking itself out.
I’m sure we’d live somehow
If it comes to that… It is what it is!
I don’t need big instances directly piped into my vein to have a good time on the internet.
They only have 4 admins and don’t allow users to create communities. It’s highly curated, but also can’t handle the influx of users from other instances until they have better mod tools, or change their position.
The solution was to ask for more volunteer mods, not the nuclear option.
Its surpassing how much they want to control what other people see.
Which they have been doing. They added a bunch of mods to local communities. But it just wasn’t enough, according to them.
Well that’s what they’ve said from the beginning. They wanted a more curated and friendly instance, rather than having the old reddit culture.
100% agree, and their need for control is a huge red flag. I don’t really want them federated tbh. Already they are trying to use their control over several large communities to influence other instances policies.
Sounds like they just need to add a few temp mods.
From my understanding, with the slew of new users on lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works, moderating comments and posts that were against Beehaw community rules (largely because of bigotry and harassment) became more or less impossible. While there has been an overall explosion in new accounts across the fediverse, almost all of their time was moderating users from those two instances. They were not able to find a compromise using the current mod tools, so went with the nuclear option while they figure out new solutions.
Here’s the truth. They want a safe space. If you question the admins they will ban you. You must be militantly polite or your gone
They explicitly state that they’re making a safe space in their TOS thing, no?
Safe space = dissent disallowed.
Yes? That’s explicitly the purpose. I get it’s shitty but it’s pretty stupid to go to a place where they outright tell you they’re going to censor you and then get mad that they do it
Yeah so I don’t think we’re disagreeing here then. I made the claim that they’re very censor-heavy and toxic and you seem to confirm that yourself. My argument was never about specifically going over there.
@Sexypink @sbv so basically they’re reddit users.
The Great Fediverse Redditour of 2023 is already picking up to be far more interesting than the Poa.st and Bae.st hacks.
@Owl @Sexypink @sbv they got hacked? why would anyone care?
You let dogs in, the fleas follow. That’s why.
@Owl @Sexypink @sbv they let white girls use their server?
What does “militantly polite” mean?
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Do you have any examples of this?
Bro look at their description you can pick it up just from that. They straight up say things like “if you say bad things about feminism you’re automatically sexist” like what?
Except… that’s not what they say anywhere. In fact they wrote three nuanced essays that explain in detail their philosophy, and lay out that you CAN be critical of something (i.e. feminism) in a nice way that acknowledges your humanity and the humanity of others, and that if Feminists come in and flame you over it, THOSE are the people who will be getting warnings and bans. They want a mature community that fosters mutual understanding when disagreements arise. So when someone says “feminism bad” like they have a 26 character limit that doesn’t exist, they see it not as disagreement but as disrespect.
Show me where they are accepting of criticism to feminism, links please, because I can source my argument. Nothing in that post encourages criticism of feminism regardless of the type of criticism. It’s funny because they specifically defend modern feminism, which is something many people can find criticism of.
Yeah, for many many reasons I doubt that. If anything, the admins will allow those feminists to flame you, likely giving them a pass to violate TOS, before banning you simply for posting an article.
This still sounds like you are just guessing. Can you actually provide examples of this happening? With the moderation log being public we should be able to easily see who got banned for what.
Big words for someone from exploding heads.
That’s how it is on most internet forums tbh