The co-founder of failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX pleaded not guilty to a seven count indictment charging him with wire fraud, securities fraud and money laundering.
An attorney for FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried said in federal court Tuesday his client has to subsist on bread, water and peanut butter because the jail he’s in isn’t accommodating his vegan diet.
locking him up won’t get anyone their money back. i don’t know what would be the right thing to do but i don’t see how keepin him in a cage helps anyone.
@commie @FuglyDuck
His bail was revoked because he was contacting witnesses.
Classic example of fuck around and find out.
The main thing is to dissuade people from doing what he did, right?
Fuck around and find out and all that.
If it has any actual use for anyone (e.g. separating dangerous people from society, taking stolen property/money back, preventing them from committing more crimes etc), that’s entirely unintentional.
It’s more about isolating him so he can’t do more harm.
shouldn’t those sorts of things be the actual goal of any “justice system”?
Of course, but we all know that’s not how it works out in practice (especially in America).
but that doesn’t work.
Of course it works. If you threaten someone with jail when they do X, then they are less likely to do X.
To take one example, several states have recently threatened doctors with jail if they perform abortions. As a result, obstetricians are now fleeing those states to avoid being prosecuted for performing their normal medical duties. If jail had no deterrent effect, then obstetricians would stay put and keep doing what they’ve always been doing, including performing safe abortions.
To take another example, several state have recently decriminalized marijuana, thus reduces the risk of jail for sale and possession. As a result, marijuana is more commonly consumed in public and far more commonly sold in public. If jail had no deterrent effect, there would be no change in the number of businesses selling marijuana.
if it worked then he wouldn’t have done it.
Something doesn’t have to be 100% effective to work.
Quitting smoking works to prevent cancer. That doesn’t mean it is 100% effective in preventing cancer.
so you think the solution to stop someone from doing something you don’t like is to put someone else in a cage. i just can’t do that. that’s wrong.
I can’t stop anyone from doing something I don’t like.
But historically, there have been plenty of solutions to stop someone from doing something society doesn’t like. For example, execution. Torture. Punishing their relatives. Exile. Prison. And asking them nicely to please stop.
Of those, I think prison is the best option. Putting someone in a cage may seem wrong, but letting them freely murder and rape innocent people is more wrong.
no one was murdered or raped here, and i’m not saying to let people murder or rape.
i prefer asking them nicely to please stop. i also think exile is fine, but we should try shunning first.
How far do you take this philosophy? Do you feel people who sexually abuse children should stay free?
I don’t see how locking someone in a cage benefits anymore.
It’s called “justice” and in an ideal society it comes for everyone.
He commited billions of dollars worth of fraud. This was an intentional act. It might not “do any good”- but let me ask you, in a nation of laws, would allowing one that blatant to escape justice do any good? And what about the harm caused by signaling that Stanford-lawyer-parents means you’re immune to prosecution?
Lock him up. Give him his crappy budget-vegan-diet and let him serve as an example. (Even if only that example is to not steal from rich assholes.)
i don’t think justice is a vengeful spectre. i think it’s everyone feeling that wrongs have been righted, and i don’t see how locking him in a cage lets him right his wrongs.
hard to imagine how SBF is going to return 8 billion he hasn’t got.
hard to imagine how Floyd is going to get the same opportunity when he got choked out for 20 bucks. your sense of justice is tiered. Rich white guy? let him right wrongs! who cares that he’s ruined lives beyond recovery.
? when did you ask me about george floyd? where did you see me mention him? you don’t fucking know me.
Make him work in a sweatshop 16 hours a day until he can pay back everything he stole?
i don’t like slavery, either.
So don’t punish him at all? Just let him get away with it?
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i don’t really believe punishment is necessary, but surely there is something we could do to get him to help like… fix the problems he created for others.
I mean, I agree with the core of what you’re saying, but there’s a difference between believing in rehabilitation over punishment for someone who robbed a convenience store because they needed money to feed their baby, and someone who exhibited this degree of sociopathic behavior.
What would you propose we do to fix the problems he created? He could spend a lifetime paying it back bit by bit and still not be finished when he dies.
I don’t have the answer but I don’t see what good it does to lock him up
It ensures he can’t harm anyone else, for one. It provides some measure of closure and peace of mind to the victims, for another. It’s not like it’s just financial crimes, it’s witness tampering and threats that he’s in there for. How else can the witnesses feel safe? If I were they, I certainly wouldn’t feel safe if he was out on the street.
no, it doesn’t: there are other people in prisons.
i don’t see how anyone is safer with him locked in a cage.
He stole millions of dollars and tried to ruin people’s reputations to save his ass in court and you think no punishment is necessary?
So he should be free to just do it all again?
I just don’t believe in punishment. I think that we could find another solution that actually helps people. we might even help him.
What specifically would stop him from ruining more lives? The man put his ex-girlfriends diary online to stop her from testifying. He’s fucking evil.
i didn’t know all the details and it certainly sounds like he’s done some shitty things, but putting him in prison doesn’t stop him from ruining more lives.
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It’s interesting to me to meet someone wholly anti jail. I think our “justice system” is anything but, and at least that’s partially because we have a completely muddled idea about what we’re even trying to accomplish - mostly because of all these different opinions.
It seems pretty clear that our jails are “technically” just this side of cruel and unusual punishment as defined by our courts. But it’s all about punishment. Of course this assumes that retribution is a useful goal, and as you point out - it probably isn’t.
It’s also dubious that there’s any deterrence effect from jail sentences. Lots of people believe there is, but the studies I’ve seen don’t bear that out.
It’s also pretty clear that jail is expensive and just as likely to make criminals worse rather than better, so from a societal perspective, there’s a really good reason to re-think our justice system.
However, given our current system is about punishment and making victims and society at large feel better because “those who fucked around found out” - I would still prefer to see this guy get his to remind people we do in fact have laws and might enforce them.