Luis Chamberlain sent out the modules changes today for the Linux 6.6 merge window. Most notable with the modules update is a change that better builds up the defenses against NVIDIA’s proprietary kernel driver from using GPL-only symbols. Or in other words, bits that only true open-source drivers should be utilizing and not proprietary kernel drivers like NVIDIA’s default Linux driver in respecting the original kernel code author’s intent.

Back in 2020 when the original defense was added, NVIDIA recommended avoiding the Linux 5.9 for the time being. They ended up having a supported driver several weeks later. It will be interesting to see this time how long Linux 6.6+ thwarts their kernel driver.

  • ArbitraryValue
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    1 year ago

    I did say that I get why the Linux folks are doing this. The problem is that Nvidia drivers that obey these restrictions and as a result have significantly worse performance than Nvidia drivers on other operating systems aren’t the solution either. Anyone who does serious GPU computing will still have to switch away from Linux.

    (IMO Nvidia would be insane to open-source their drivers. Like sue-corporate-officers-for-breach-of-duty level insane. So they can’t do more than what they’re already doing: coming up with workarounds.)

    • Sethayy
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      1 year ago

      AMD’s doing pretty well with their open source drivers, I suppose its up to nvidia if they want to offer a worse product simply so they can keep as much profits as possible.

      But leveraging other peoples work via open source code, to improve their product - then still not donating nor contributing back to the source? Not only illegal but scummy as hell.

      We may not be as offended as the kernel devs, but theyre the ones whos work is being stolen, so I wouldn’t be so quick to tell them what to do

      • ArbitraryValue
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        1 year ago

        I wouldn’t say AMD is doing pretty well - it isn’t a serious competitor to Nvidia in the GPU computing market.

        • BURN@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          No idea why you’re getting downvoted. Outside of the increasingly small desktop gpu market AMD is completely irrelevant in professional GPU use. They’re not even remotely close to being a competitor

          • Sethayy
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            1 year ago

            I mean theyre both extending to the portable desktop a la steam deck and investing in mobile GPUs… And with a massive monopoly against then, I’d say theyre doing pretty good - so much so Intel is inspired to do similar with their arc gpus

      • Ulu-Mulu-no-die@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Is it possible that by revealing their drivers they would also reveal something about their industry designs?

        I mean, just building the hardware and letting the community do all the work on drivers for free would be better, if they don’t do it there must be a valid reason I think.

        • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I mean, they make money of selling the hardware from what I understand. Maybe I’m misunderstanding, and that’s the problem. Maybe they make money off the driver’s too.

        • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Their drivers were already leaked, any secrets they were trying to hide are out in the wild, so that point is moot.

      • ArbitraryValue
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        1 year ago

        Of course I can’t know for sure because the driver is closed-source, but I’d bet that a lot of what makes Nvidia hardware work fast is actually in the driver rather than the hardware itself. Plus, a proprietary driver lets them lock people in to buying their hardware. The company where I work doesn’t use Nvidia software because it buys Nvidia GPUs. It buys Nvidia GPUs because it uses Nvidia software.

        • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I don’t believe that even for a second. Software doesn’t make hardware run faster. It can certainly slow it down. But it doesn’t make it run better.

          • ArbitraryValue
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            1 year ago

            Of course software can’t exceed the physical limits of the hardware but reaching the physical limits of the hardware is non-trivial, especially for hardware as complex as a modern GPU.

            • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Not really that difficult to use 100% of GPU resources. I’m developing a game right now. It’s not well optimized and uses 100% of GPU resources depending on what I’m doing in the game.

              • ArbitraryValue
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                1 year ago

                Reaching 100% utilization is simple and entirely under the control of the user. Optimized drivers are for giving that user more computation at 100% utilization.

        • MazonnaCara89@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Oh yes sure, the software make nvidia gpu better, something that probably most of the hundred if not thousand of contributor to the mesa driver and in the list we have amd, intel, collabora, redhat, nouveau, google, valve and many others didn’t see, they were the only one in the entire silicon valley to find this secret sauce to make gpus better with software.

          • ArbitraryValue
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            1 year ago

            Yes? I’m not saying Mesa as a whole is bad, but Mesa+Nouveau for Nvidia cards is terrible.

            (It doesn’t help that Nvidia isn’t exactly cooperative when it comes to supporting open-source developers, but my point that driver development is non-trivial stands.)

            • MazonnaCara89@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Mesa+Nouveau is bad only thanks to nvidia and their signature lock implemented since the 900 series, as even stated by me before:

              the open source nvidia driver it’s not able to re-clock the gpu with an higher clock than the boot one (and trust me it’s a really low clock) and you are not able to use a quarter of the power the gpu has.

              Even if the open source driver code is 100% equals the nvidia one, literally copy pasted, it would not work because it need to be signed by nvidia to do so.

              • ArbitraryValue
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                1 year ago

                You’ve convinced me. I still think that secret optimizations are a possibility, but I must concede that there might very well be this sort of lock-in bullshit and nothing else.