• mindbleach
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    11 months ago

    If shape doesn’t matter, why does anyone care about legislating what shapes can be sold?

      • mindbleach
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        11 months ago

        Okay, so you’d be down for sensible legislation that takes the right to bear arms as an absolute.

        Like if we registered and tracked all firearms, without changing who can buy which ones.

        • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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          11 months ago

          Those laws would be infringements, and are illegal under the Second Amendment.

          infringe: to encroach upon in a way that violates law or the rights of another

          • mindbleach
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            11 months ago

            Does a right to bear arms mean something besides owning and carrying loaded guns? Because writing down who has which guns does not stop that in any way.

            Unless maybe you’re picking the conclusion you want and working backwards.

            Here’s a fun one: should full-auto submachineguns be available at 7-11?

            • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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              11 months ago

              I won’t make a comment on whether automatic submachine guns should or shouldn’t be available at a convenience store. But I will state that under the Second Amendment, any law that prevents people from owning and using submachine guns is illegal.

              • mindbleach
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                11 months ago

                That’s pretty “should,” guy.

                That’s straight-up endorsing 7-11’s ability to sell literally any gun to literally anybody. If you have hesitations about whether that’s a fucking terrible idea… good. Maybe we can talk about that.

                  • mindbleach
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                    11 months ago

                    Either you think full-auto should be unrestricted or you don’t.

                    And if you don’t, great, let’s talk about which restrictions you like.

              • norbert@kbin.social
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                11 months ago

                Your exceptionally narrow view of and focus on singular word in an amendment is hilarious.

      • Zorque@kbin.social
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        11 months ago

        I’d love to violate the second amendment! Can you define it in more than four words?

            • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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              11 months ago
              1. What right is the amendment about? The right to keep and bear arms.
              2. Whose right is it? The people.
              3. What shall be done with this right? It shall not be infringed.

              The rest only explains the reason why the amendment was written and doesn’t alter the above facts. Let’s rewrite it a bit to be more understandable:

              A well balanced breakfast, being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food, shall not be infringed.

              Is it the right of the well balanced breakfast, or the right of the people, in this case, to keep and eat food? Of course, it is the right of the people. What shall be done with it? It shall not be infringed upon. If you dictate to me what food I am allowed to store in my cupboards and in what circumstances I am allowed to eat it, you are infringing upon my right to keep and eat food.

              • mindbleach
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                11 months ago

                If your food isn’t for breakfast, that law has nothing to do with it.

                Invoking other arguments for eating would be a fallacy. Your own stupid analogy just says: breakfast.

                • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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                  11 months ago

                  Debating this with you is obviously pointless. Nowhere does the amendment state that arms are only to be used within a militia.

                  • mindbleach
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                    11 months ago

                    ‘Because an army is necessary to maintain democracy, people should have guns.’

                    The whole thing is one sentence long, and there’s only one stated reason in that sentence.

                  • mindbleach
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                    11 months ago

                    No, it’s definitely this gun nut arguing the intent of a law does not matter.

                    We know what a militia is for. We know why randos owning guns was necessary, to raise a militia. But we don’t do that anymore. We have a standing army. The second amendment might as well say “slave revolts are dangerous, so everybody’s gotta get armed.”

                    But this guy’s trying to pretend the need for food must be exactly as important as his need for guns, and that nobody will notice his analogy friggin’ blows.

              • norbert@kbin.social
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                11 months ago

                I get it, you’re an individualist, you won’t find me arguing against an individuals right to own guns; however I disagree with your analysis. Your interpretation of “infringed” seems to be “anything preventing.” Well-regulated in the context of the 2nd amendment implies the imposition of proper training and discipline. This has actually already been decided.

                DC v. Heller (which ruled on the individual right to bear arms in 2008) states:
                Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose

                • BaldProphet@kbin.social
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                  11 months ago

                  It’s not my interpretation of “infringed”. It’s the Merriam-Webster definition of the word.

                  • mindbleach
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                    11 months ago

                    Right, like how voter registration infringes on the right to vote.

                  • norbert@kbin.social
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                    11 months ago

                    Laws in the US aren’t written by Merriam-Webster, if they were we’d have a lot fewer cases as lawyers wouldn’t argue the meaning of words.

                    The Supreme Court has ruled the 2nd amendment is not carte Blanche to own whatever you like. You’re like a typical republican, absolutely unwilling to compromise or meet in the middle. It’s your way or the highway. Let’s see how that works out for you over the next few decades.