I agree but a direct adaptation of the books would not make a good TV show.
The books are a series of vignettes spaced decades apart with no continuing characters and each is a separate short story. While they work in the written form, they would not on the screen.
It could be done as a series of vignettes, for example, as 6 episode series, with each series centred around each crisis. That would give you 4-5 hours - or 2.5 Mrs Doubtfires - to do what Asimov does in around 60 pages (depending on crisis).
I don’t understand the argument that this is impossible to do, pretty much every film you will have ever seen will have had a shorter runtime than 5 hours, and handled all aspects of character introduction, motivation, conflict, growth, and resolution, within than time too.
I am not saying it has to be identical or a word for word adaptation - I have no issues what so ever with gender swapping Hardin - but as another poster points out, having Seldon live on (other than as recordings getting increasingly divorced from reality) directly rejects the core premise of the book, which is a refutation of the great man hypothesis.
I tried to watch Foundation, mostly because Asimov is one of those writers whose style I can’t stand in his actual books (his characterization is really flat–you could tell he was far more interested in his ideas and the characters were just pawns on a stage), and I’ve had a few cases where books I couldn’t finish were very watchable on screen. Also, I was following Jared Harris from the Expanse to Foundation in the hopes of seeing something awesome.
But what I saw, and what I remembered from the books, didn’t add up. Nor did it suck me in on its own merits, like some other adaptations have.
I don’t get the people saying it’d never work, as written. How hard is it to show that every inflection point centered on an individual had multiple people who could have been that figure? It’s an ironic rejection of great-man history. Yes, the world changed because of some particular nobody, in the right place at the right time, but the world at large wouldn’t notice or remember how many nobodies wanted that role. They wouldn’t even recognize one another, as they’re doing it. Meanwhile, cocksure revolutionaries with a modicum of support are constantly rising against that tide and floundering out… or getting squashed.
In Asimov’s view, these shifts require a polarizing figure, an unstoppable base of support, and a new equilibrium. Anything less will spiral back toward the status quo.
The episodic nature of the source material is obviously fine for an episodic televisionish format. It’d be great to show increasingly distant crises where a tiny ‘we’ll fix it later’ problem metastasized into a society-threatening life-and-death matter. It’d also allow failure. There are times people expect a revolutionary change, and what actually happens is, they suffer irreversibly and run for their lives. A messianic figure can reach for a base that’s not there, and their solution will not happen. A fundamental shift can go exactly as planned and still slide right back. Generations can lie in wait if no pivotal individual emerges… and lives.
It feels more like an addition than an adaptation (it isn’t, but it’s the only perspective in which the show can be good). I’m a big fan of the books, and I’m also enjoying the show so far.
From the first season I thought the Trantor stuff was awesome but the Terminus stuff sucked. Never have I had a show where I was more divided.
I was this close to skipping the Terminus stuff, I just couldn’t give a shit about it and was constantly waiting to see Trantor and the beefcake to do some boss shit
I’d say Foundation, but the show has been so far away from the books since literally episode 1 that the name might as well be a coincidence.
I agree but a direct adaptation of the books would not make a good TV show.
The books are a series of vignettes spaced decades apart with no continuing characters and each is a separate short story. While they work in the written form, they would not on the screen.
It could be done as a series of vignettes, for example, as 6 episode series, with each series centred around each crisis. That would give you 4-5 hours - or 2.5 Mrs Doubtfires - to do what Asimov does in around 60 pages (depending on crisis).
I don’t understand the argument that this is impossible to do, pretty much every film you will have ever seen will have had a shorter runtime than 5 hours, and handled all aspects of character introduction, motivation, conflict, growth, and resolution, within than time too.
I am not saying it has to be identical or a word for word adaptation - I have no issues what so ever with gender swapping Hardin - but as another poster points out, having Seldon live on (other than as recordings getting increasingly divorced from reality) directly rejects the core premise of the book, which is a refutation of the great man hypothesis.
I think the closest you get is B5’s Deconstruction of Falling Stars.
I don’t have Apple TV, and I was irritated that I’d be missing Foundation. The more I hear about it, though, the less irritated I am.
I tried to watch Foundation, mostly because Asimov is one of those writers whose style I can’t stand in his actual books (his characterization is really flat–you could tell he was far more interested in his ideas and the characters were just pawns on a stage), and I’ve had a few cases where books I couldn’t finish were very watchable on screen. Also, I was following Jared Harris from the Expanse to Foundation in the hopes of seeing something awesome.
But what I saw, and what I remembered from the books, didn’t add up. Nor did it suck me in on its own merits, like some other adaptations have.
The first two episodes are the most gorgeous sci-fi tv production I’ve ever seen. Beyond that it’s a bit shakier but it’s definitely watchable.
They very much lampshade that with the whole outliers thing. Events spin off in wildly different directions.
If you want a direct translation of the books, no dice, but damn the shit they’ve pulled out of whole cloth with the Cleons is amazeballs.
The Cleons is literally the only reason I continue to watch the show.
Did some good stuff with Riose as well.
Not looking forward to them fucking up The Mule tho :/
See: Crucifying A Masterwork.
I don’t get the people saying it’d never work, as written. How hard is it to show that every inflection point centered on an individual had multiple people who could have been that figure? It’s an ironic rejection of great-man history. Yes, the world changed because of some particular nobody, in the right place at the right time, but the world at large wouldn’t notice or remember how many nobodies wanted that role. They wouldn’t even recognize one another, as they’re doing it. Meanwhile, cocksure revolutionaries with a modicum of support are constantly rising against that tide and floundering out… or getting squashed.
In Asimov’s view, these shifts require a polarizing figure, an unstoppable base of support, and a new equilibrium. Anything less will spiral back toward the status quo.
The episodic nature of the source material is obviously fine for an episodic televisionish format. It’d be great to show increasingly distant crises where a tiny ‘we’ll fix it later’ problem metastasized into a society-threatening life-and-death matter. It’d also allow failure. There are times people expect a revolutionary change, and what actually happens is, they suffer irreversibly and run for their lives. A messianic figure can reach for a base that’s not there, and their solution will not happen. A fundamental shift can go exactly as planned and still slide right back. Generations can lie in wait if no pivotal individual emerges… and lives.
Absolutely agree.
It feels more like an addition than an adaptation (it isn’t, but it’s the only perspective in which the show can be good). I’m a big fan of the books, and I’m also enjoying the show so far.
The show is so well done I don’t even mind that it’s not like the books
Even by itself, the show makes no sense.
From the first season I thought the Trantor stuff was awesome but the Terminus stuff sucked. Never have I had a show where I was more divided.
I was this close to skipping the Terminus stuff, I just couldn’t give a shit about it and was constantly waiting to see Trantor and the beefcake to do some boss shit
i mean lee pace fighting ninjas completely naked is a helluva plus, ya gotta admit.