There is no way cacao is pollinated by bats. it’s flowers are minuscule and wayyyyy to delicate to be pollinated by probably even a large bee. Afaik, they are gnat pollinated or otherwise human pollinated.
I have two in my yard and there is a 0 percent chance that a bat could ever even accidentally pollinate a cacao.
Here is a link to a video I just made of a cacao flower:
I’m back: although the top ten search results say bats pollinate cacao, I can find no convincing evidence except that the “chocolate midge” is the only cacao pollinator.
But bats eat midges, is the pollen somehow making it through their tract?
Me too, but I can’t find any specific information on how bats pollinate cacao or if bats are eating other organisms that feed on chocolate midges or what.
That study might be what all the BuzzFeed lists and everything are referring to, since every mention of bats and cacao maker the same vague assertion of why you should thank bats for chocolate.
While perhaps misleadingly phrased, if taken as two separate ideas (“Thank bats for chocolate”, full stop, “bats pollinate 300 species of plants”), they’re not necessarily saying to thank bats for chocolate because they are responsible for their pollination.
I have no background in this subject beyond what I’ve read in the comments here, but it seems likely that the bats apply predatory pressure on insects that would otherwise themselves prey upon the pollinating midges, or the plant itself.
In this way, the bats contribute to the production of chocolate by reducing predatory pressure on the midges which are actually carrying out the pollination process.
I was referring to this result while looking this up:
I totally agree, I replied somewhere else that I’m pretty sure all these listicles are mindlessly refrencing one other and any kernel of truth probably stems from bats eating insects that eat midges.
Pls see my comment - I believe bats disperse seeds for cacao, and that’s what the picture says. Although I can now also see some sites saying they pollinate it, too.
I’ll post some cacao flowers when the sun comes up.
bat pollinated flowers are almost always large and tubular. because bats are large, at least relative to insects, and even then, I don’t think a bee could successfully pollinate a cacao. suns up in 1hr.
This is a cacao flower. It’s about 5 mm wide (half a centimeter). It has no visible nectaries, and it seems like the pollen are in pollenia attached and guarded by anther shields. Like wise, the stigma has some filimants (maybe infertile anthers?) that also appear to be for blocking self pollination. None of that speaks to bat pollination and unlikely even pollination by European honey bees. This kind of floral arrangement would speak to a specific species that needs to be just the right size to get a pollenia stuck to it, then to be able to move that polenia past the filaments around the stigma on another flower. More akin to an orchid or milkweed style of pollination.
(uploading a video too, but it will be a few minutes)
If you look at the wording on the picture - it does not say they pollinate cacao, rather that they disperse seeds for it. I think my title made it confusing, and I should have added seed dispersal…
I think the point of this sidebar is that these kind of mindvirus ideas get spread, but when you scratch beneath the surface, they are all kissing cousins referencing one another.
This particular version doesn’t explicitly state that bats pollinate cacao, but it strongly implies. Dig around some more and other referencing this do explicitly state; yet no where is it provided that all of this is basically based around one study, which was really just a correlation between bats and cacao productivity in one small area. Its an issue in science communication in general which is why this thread started, to peal back the layers of the onion a bit and dig further. You can see below for some images I took after I saw this post of cacao that I am personally growing. I also posted a link to a YT video I took showing the flowers and how its basically impossible for a bat to pollinate them (and several of the mentalfloss type sites citing the one you linked do explicitly state that). But this is how ‘wrong explanations’ for how things work begin. Factoids aren’t facts, but fact-like-objects.
I’ll be happy to update the sidebar, I understand the need for accurate communication in science. I also would have thought that Canadian Geographic would be a good source, but apparently not.
Well its a good lesson. Thanks for being open minded. Also check out the video to see what a cacao flower looks like.
Afaik, the paper found a 37% increase in yields when birds and bats had access to cacao. However, I think this is likely due to bats and birds eating the predators of cacao midges (tiny gnats that pollinate cacao).
This is the key figure from the paper that shows that:
There is no way cacao is pollinated by bats. it’s flowers are minuscule and wayyyyy to delicate to be pollinated by probably even a large bee. Afaik, they are gnat pollinated or otherwise human pollinated.
I have two in my yard and there is a 0 percent chance that a bat could ever even accidentally pollinate a cacao.
Here is a link to a video I just made of a cacao flower:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFvCQ-pDkwY
I’m back: although the top ten search results say bats pollinate cacao, I can find no convincing evidence except that the “chocolate midge” is the only cacao pollinator.
But bats eat midges, is the pollen somehow making it through their tract?
Bat people where are you
I found this
Me too, but I can’t find any specific information on how bats pollinate cacao or if bats are eating other organisms that feed on chocolate midges or what.
That study might be what all the BuzzFeed lists and everything are referring to, since every mention of bats and cacao maker the same vague assertion of why you should thank bats for chocolate.
While perhaps misleadingly phrased, if taken as two separate ideas (“Thank bats for chocolate”, full stop, “bats pollinate 300 species of plants”), they’re not necessarily saying to thank bats for chocolate because they are responsible for their pollination.
I have no background in this subject beyond what I’ve read in the comments here, but it seems likely that the bats apply predatory pressure on insects that would otherwise themselves prey upon the pollinating midges, or the plant itself.
In this way, the bats contribute to the production of chocolate by reducing predatory pressure on the midges which are actually carrying out the pollination process.
I was referring to this result while looking this up:
I totally agree, I replied somewhere else that I’m pretty sure all these listicles are mindlessly refrencing one other and any kernel of truth probably stems from bats eating insects that eat midges.
Pls see my comment - I believe bats disperse seeds for cacao, and that’s what the picture says. Although I can now also see some sites saying they pollinate it, too.
Ah, there is the kernel! Thank you very much for bringing your comment to my attention, appreciate it.
That makes sense, since the pollen wouldn’t have survived their metabolism but the seeds are evolved to.
I think I was so interested that I immediately tried to find out about bats and cacao and so many of the listicles said pollinate I got confused.
Great.
I’ll post some cacao flowers when the sun comes up.
bat pollinated flowers are almost always large and tubular. because bats are large, at least relative to insects, and even then, I don’t think a bee could successfully pollinate a cacao. suns up in 1hr.
I looked them up as soon as I saw your comment and actually saw a midge on the edge of one, so I totally agree.
Just wondering what the kernel of truth all of these listicles are referencing is.
This is a cacao flower. It’s about 5 mm wide (half a centimeter). It has no visible nectaries, and it seems like the pollen are in pollenia attached and guarded by anther shields. Like wise, the stigma has some filimants (maybe infertile anthers?) that also appear to be for blocking self pollination. None of that speaks to bat pollination and unlikely even pollination by European honey bees. This kind of floral arrangement would speak to a specific species that needs to be just the right size to get a pollenia stuck to it, then to be able to move that polenia past the filaments around the stigma on another flower. More akin to an orchid or milkweed style of pollination.
(uploading a video too, but it will be a few minutes)
Makes sense, there’s no evidence I can find that bats pollinate them either, just broad statements and puff pieces and listicles.
Thanks for posting the pictures though, that’ll be interesting for anyone visiting this thread
Here is the video, just posted
https://youtu.be/fFvCQ-pDkwY?si=-pYmHOv4g57TJtYM
deleted by creator
Bat people?
Input needed!
If you look at the wording on the picture - it does not say they pollinate cacao, rather that they disperse seeds for it. I think my title made it confusing, and I should have added seed dispersal…
You will find that bats are very important in cacao production regardless of how you define their contribution.
I think the point of this sidebar is that these kind of mindvirus ideas get spread, but when you scratch beneath the surface, they are all kissing cousins referencing one another.
This particular version doesn’t explicitly state that bats pollinate cacao, but it strongly implies. Dig around some more and other referencing this do explicitly state; yet no where is it provided that all of this is basically based around one study, which was really just a correlation between bats and cacao productivity in one small area. Its an issue in science communication in general which is why this thread started, to peal back the layers of the onion a bit and dig further. You can see below for some images I took after I saw this post of cacao that I am personally growing. I also posted a link to a YT video I took showing the flowers and how its basically impossible for a bat to pollinate them (and several of the mentalfloss type sites citing the one you linked do explicitly state that). But this is how ‘wrong explanations’ for how things work begin. Factoids aren’t facts, but fact-like-objects.
I’ll be happy to update the sidebar, I understand the need for accurate communication in science. I also would have thought that Canadian Geographic would be a good source, but apparently not.
Well its a good lesson. Thanks for being open minded. Also check out the video to see what a cacao flower looks like.
Afaik, the paper found a 37% increase in yields when birds and bats had access to cacao. However, I think this is likely due to bats and birds eating the predators of cacao midges (tiny gnats that pollinate cacao).
This is the key figure from the paper that shows that:
Here is the link to the paper:
https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/eap.2886