I think the way federation currently works spells doom for the fediverse, should any service of it get major traction. Currently, if you subscribe to a community on Lemmy or follow a user on Mastodon, your instance will pull the content of that instance/user and make it available for all to see and interact with. What seems like a good idea to spread content however is becomming the achilles heel of the fediverse: The admins of Lemmy/Mastodon instances are liable in many juristictions for the content their servers are distributing. This means in practice that many Lemmy/Mastodon instances block NSFW content for example, as the admins, understandably so, are either unwilling or incapable of making sure they are not running afoul of any laws.
As such, I think that the fediverse needs to offer a way for users to follow content from other instances without having that content be stored, let alone shared by their home instances.
A question I have at this point is where this criticism is best levied against. Is it the job of Lemmy/Mastodon to provide such a form of federation, or does the ActivityPub protocol needs to be ammended?
You bring up legitimate concerns, but I think the bigger point here is that the Fediverse is not Reddit, nor should it be. I find that fragmentation mitigates the system manipulation and “gaming” that is often tied to people who rely on exposure.
There are people out there that arent OF ‘creators’ or nefarious people that rely on exposure. The dev that created Stardew Valley all on his own for example. I have spoken with some creators, who will, despite everything, stay with twitter, simply because Mastodon is too fragmented and the chance to be seen is too low.
I’ve heard the argument that ‘lemmy is not reddit’ a few times and it is aleays used to defend the objectively bad way federation currently works. Server admins have to defederate, lest their servers automatically pull content they could be sued for for distributing. That is just bad design, flat out.
It’s not bad design though. What it does is make users, like you and myself responsible for our user experience. If you want a server that allows everything find one, if you want a conservative one, find one. If content creators want to join the server with the biggest reach in order to peddle their wares, fuck them. The fediverse is about communication not validation. It’s why so many companies find themselves defederated on mastodon before they get started. Your mindset is that numbers equal success and everything should be just like it was, but mastodon doesn’t want to be Twitter and Lemmy doesn’t want to be Reddit. In the same way that those two companies are flushing their services down the toilet, the fediverse protects against that by leaning into the idea that once it’s on the Internet, it’s there forever. There’s nothing wrong with expecting users to form relationships of trust with their admins and taking responsiblity for how that manifests
Server admins having to disable the very thing that makes the fediverse the fediverse to shield themselves from liability is by definition bad design.
For every beehaw.org, there’s a lemmy.tf, you’re judgment is using your limited viewpoint, expand your view.
You are missing the point. Beehaw defederates because they want to keep their instance close to their values. My post isn’t about those types of defederation. I’m concerned about admins having to defederate for legal reasons. If you are an admin of an instance and your instance pull content from another instance that is illegal for you to possess or share, because one of your users subscribed to a community of that instance, then the only recourse you have is to defederate from that instance. That is bad design.
No, you’re missing the point. You want a decentralised service to act like a centralised service under the guise of safety. Isn’t that what various governments are trying with encryption? The way things are designed is so that there’s no single power, your method would allow for the spoilt kid in the playground to take their ball and go home because someone weren’t playing by their rules. Stop trying to make Lemmy into the same shitty things we’ve had before.
What is even the point you are trying to make? The issue I see with federation as it stands now is very simple: With the current implementation of federation, where a server loads, stores and displays content from federated instances, there is the risk of loading, storing and displaying content that you, as the instance owner, per your country’s laws, are not allowed to load, store and display. The current implementation makes you, as the instance owner. liable for content that is uploaded to federated servers. That is the issue. Federation, in my opinion, needs to be changed in order to not have instance owners run the risk of being liable for content from other instances when federating! I don’t even know how your wall of text even adresses this issue.
And again, I point out to you that the Fediverse is not what you’re used to whereby an owner can just throw money at something and forget about it until it needs more money. They need to be active and hands-on. It’s their responsibility to ensure that they’re not federating with bad actors. I’m unsure why you’re struggling with that concept. It’s a community, not a product.
There is no perfect solution, though. Both Reddit and Lemmy have inherent flaws and benefits because they serve different purposes.
There is no perfect solution, but having the core feature, federation itself, work to the detriment of the admins that run the instances, is completely antithetical to what federation is meant to achieve: A decentralized network.
It also reduces toxicity and increases admin/mod accountability. It’s just fantastic.