This design creates toxicity instead of competition, and your hot take is ‘so you hate competition?’ Yeah sure dude, LeBron dominating a junior-high ballgame is what sportsmanship is all about. His team is winning by a lot so they must be super competitive. What a shame we can’t judge individual players. Apparently. Stop measuring assists, all that matters is the almighty W.
If we’re talking about people playing badly… on purpose… walk me through how that’s exemplifying competitive games. Is opposition to that behavior some kind of betrayal? Because if so, you should be furious at Valve, since they’re attacking that behavior in the most blunt-force ways possible.
After all - why should games be enjoyable? Losing should feel bad. It can’t just be less fun, it has to be miserable. That’s motivation! Shaking hands after a game is for cowards! In fact, if you lose a platinum match? Banned for life. Hardcore permadeath rules.
That system will surely encourage healthy competition without making any player scream their lungs out.
This design creates toxicity instead of competition, and your hot take is ‘so you hate competition?’ Yeah sure dude, LeBron dominating a junior-high ballgame is what sportsmanship is all about. His team is winning by a lot so they must be super competitive. What a shame we can’t judge individual players. Apparently. Stop measuring assists, all that matters is the almighty W.
It would be competition, just not fun competition. And the solution we came to for problems like that isn’t lower the nets and remove the need for dribbling, its preventing matchups like that. Thats why SBMM exists and why those who try and smurf around it get banned.
After all - why should games be enjoyable? Losing should feel bad. It can’t just be less fun, it has to be miserable. That’s motivation! Shaking hands after a game is for cowards! In fact, if you lose a platinum match? Banned for life. Hardcore permadeath rules.
Or, you could just shake hands, say GG and move on? Nothing prevents that. Even if you do chose to play ranked over unranked/arcade (a choice the player themselves makes) a lowered MMR is just a different number.
Again: ‘prevent those matchups’ is a naive solution. It’s staring straight at a systemic problem and saying, well, let’s just punish anyone who does it wrong.
It is the difference between warning people about a guy who exploits a bug, and fixing the damn bug.
you could just shake hands, say GG and move on?
I agree, players should feel that way, after a loss.
I mean, your solution seems to be to lower the skill ceiling to the level of the lowest player. That doesn’t fix it either. In the example you gave, we don’t change basketball to account for LeBroun James playing against toddlers. Are you saying we should? Anything like that completely changes the game into something different.
My off-the-cuff proposal was to make low-tier matches play like low-tier matches. A non-event for anyone who belongs there. But for some reason everyone just ignores the part where we’re talking about smurfs entering games with noobs, and insists I must ‘hate competition.’
Any system like that implemented would inherantly either A) change the game fundamentally, B) Still cause smurfs to ruin games, or C) prevent the (relatively) good players from being rewarded for playing well.
Fundamentally, either you change the game very substantially in which case smurfs don’t know how to play, but then you alienate the low tier players who do want to play the same game and encourage people to smurf to try this new gamemode, you make less significant changes but still add a pretty hard skill ceiling, but that prevent good low-tier players from snowballing or being rewarded for playing well, or you make only minor changes in which case the smurf will still take over the game. Theres no in-between. If skill dictates the game, then the person with most skill (the smurf) will win. If skill does not dictate the game, then you lose the fair, balanced competitve aspect that is the draw of these games. That is the case no matter how good the players are. Low tier or not, you don’t just want to be handed a win. You can’t have a game that both is dictated by skill, but also make sure that those with skill are pulled in line with everyone else.
Like, there’s not a whole separate game being proposed here. Some numbers, for some people, in some matches, will just be… less. How to play works exactly the same. It is the same game. And this only needs to affect the people who are already kicking ass.
Their contribution will still be critical to their team’s victory. It just won’t be enough to single-handedly decide the outcome for all nine other players. It will be… less. They can still be the greatest contributor. They can get in-game recognition for every clever decision and make their brain squirt the happy chemicals. They just don’t get as much per-action as the guy who’s figuring out what DoT stands for.
This isn’t high witchcraft, or some kind of paradox. It’s grading on a curve. It’s “handicapping.” A boring and typical adjustment in actual sports, even at higher levels.
And again, it only has to work in the dirt leagues, because the goal is keeping assholes bored. If you play super duper good, and get bumped to a higher rank, and play with other people of that rank… none of this applies. Nothing is different. High-level play between high-ranked players would remain as sweaty as you can imagine. If someone pops enough adderall to see through time, and completely ruins a ranked lobby full of gold players, who gives a shit?
Thanks for demonstrating the problem.
This design creates toxicity instead of competition, and your hot take is ‘so you hate competition?’ Yeah sure dude, LeBron dominating a junior-high ballgame is what sportsmanship is all about. His team is winning by a lot so they must be super competitive. What a shame we can’t judge individual players. Apparently. Stop measuring assists, all that matters is the almighty W.
If we’re talking about people playing badly… on purpose… walk me through how that’s exemplifying competitive games. Is opposition to that behavior some kind of betrayal? Because if so, you should be furious at Valve, since they’re attacking that behavior in the most blunt-force ways possible.
After all - why should games be enjoyable? Losing should feel bad. It can’t just be less fun, it has to be miserable. That’s motivation! Shaking hands after a game is for cowards! In fact, if you lose a platinum match? Banned for life. Hardcore permadeath rules.
That system will surely encourage healthy competition without making any player scream their lungs out.
It would be competition, just not fun competition. And the solution we came to for problems like that isn’t lower the nets and remove the need for dribbling, its preventing matchups like that. Thats why SBMM exists and why those who try and smurf around it get banned.
Or, you could just shake hands, say GG and move on? Nothing prevents that. Even if you do chose to play ranked over unranked/arcade (a choice the player themselves makes) a lowered MMR is just a different number.
Again: ‘prevent those matchups’ is a naive solution. It’s staring straight at a systemic problem and saying, well, let’s just punish anyone who does it wrong.
It is the difference between warning people about a guy who exploits a bug, and fixing the damn bug.
I agree, players should feel that way, after a loss.
But they don’t.
I wonder why.
I mean, your solution seems to be to lower the skill ceiling to the level of the lowest player. That doesn’t fix it either. In the example you gave, we don’t change basketball to account for LeBroun James playing against toddlers. Are you saying we should? Anything like that completely changes the game into something different.
… in low-tier matches.
My off-the-cuff proposal was to make low-tier matches play like low-tier matches. A non-event for anyone who belongs there. But for some reason everyone just ignores the part where we’re talking about smurfs entering games with noobs, and insists I must ‘hate competition.’
Any system like that implemented would inherantly either A) change the game fundamentally, B) Still cause smurfs to ruin games, or C) prevent the (relatively) good players from being rewarded for playing well.
Fundamentally, either you change the game very substantially in which case smurfs don’t know how to play, but then you alienate the low tier players who do want to play the same game and encourage people to smurf to try this new gamemode, you make less significant changes but still add a pretty hard skill ceiling, but that prevent good low-tier players from snowballing or being rewarded for playing well, or you make only minor changes in which case the smurf will still take over the game. Theres no in-between. If skill dictates the game, then the person with most skill (the smurf) will win. If skill does not dictate the game, then you lose the fair, balanced competitve aspect that is the draw of these games. That is the case no matter how good the players are. Low tier or not, you don’t just want to be handed a win. You can’t have a game that both is dictated by skill, but also make sure that those with skill are pulled in line with everyone else.
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of “less?”
Like, there’s not a whole separate game being proposed here. Some numbers, for some people, in some matches, will just be… less. How to play works exactly the same. It is the same game. And this only needs to affect the people who are already kicking ass.
Their contribution will still be critical to their team’s victory. It just won’t be enough to single-handedly decide the outcome for all nine other players. It will be… less. They can still be the greatest contributor. They can get in-game recognition for every clever decision and make their brain squirt the happy chemicals. They just don’t get as much per-action as the guy who’s figuring out what DoT stands for.
This isn’t high witchcraft, or some kind of paradox. It’s grading on a curve. It’s “handicapping.” A boring and typical adjustment in actual sports, even at higher levels.
And again, it only has to work in the dirt leagues, because the goal is keeping assholes bored. If you play super duper good, and get bumped to a higher rank, and play with other people of that rank… none of this applies. Nothing is different. High-level play between high-ranked players would remain as sweaty as you can imagine. If someone pops enough adderall to see through time, and completely ruins a ranked lobby full of gold players, who gives a shit?
Yeah, figures you’re just incapable of having a decent discussion
Three counts of no argument. Just empty bait. No evidence you even read what you’re responding to.
Troll harder.