The problem is, before they wemt on that murdering spree, the western world pretty much ignored their plight, or maybe tutted when they chucked a rocket or two over the border. But any kind of “proper” political solution was flatly ignored. It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I umderstand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude. And look, they actually have a tonne of eyeballs and attention on their shitty situation (and shitty leaders), so maybe something will come of this. Palestinians are paying an exorbitantly heavy price for it, though.
Sure, but again - if you murder people at a music festival and take hostages, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that terrorists won that one.
Sure, but again, if you indiscriminately kill innocent people in Gaza and destroy the very last university, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.
call the people in the phone first and tell them bombs are coming?
We do live in a dystopian world after all: “We are pleased to inform you that your house has been selected for a bombing due to acute terrorist threat. Please leave the area immediately. We are thankful for your cooperation.” Only missing Judge Dredd.
“OH yes and you only have 2 minutes to leave… But sometimes we skip the warning because Hamas might find out and flee too… That would ruin our chances of killing the terrorists! Thank you for understanding.”
Does Hamas ever probe any of their bombings? Does Hamas ever give a warning before it launches rockets into Israel? Does Hamas give a shit if it targets a college or a hospital or a school? Has Hamas ever charged one of its fighters with War crimes?
No. If Hamas blows up a coffee shop with 50 kids in it, the bombers family member gets a nice pension, probably paid with Iranian oil money. No warnings. No accountability. Actual indiscriminate killing of civilians.
You keep asking me why I credit what the IDF says. Well, they actually have some culture of transparency and see, you credit them, too.
You’ll see from my history that I was on your side until recently, but I’ve pretty much done a 180. You can’t blame civilians for the government that they weren’t born to vote for and even if they did vote for them, you really can only engage combatants. If you starve out and kill civilians, that’s war crimes and it’s making Israel look bad and that unfortunately makes antisemitism worse globally since Israel is lauded as being the Jewish homeland. It’s totally problematic, and I am firmly against the current Israeli government and don’t feel that Zionism requires genocide. It is extremely counterintuitive and shows we have learned nothing from the past. History is repeating itself. You can’t generalize an entire population of being subhuman to make it easier to justify extermination. People forget that these were modern urban areas and a large portion of the population just want to live in peace.
I was not talking about myself. I was making a general statement - that if people who are perceived as part of your (not personal) group murder people at a festival and take hostages, some people might become less sympathetic with the general cause of your (not personal) group no matter how valid it might be. The same if you level a city and bomb hospitals - you (not personal) might have a good reason, but people will get upset.
You can’t generalize an entire population of being subhuman to make it easier to justify extermination.
I assume you are using this as a general you, not me personal - since I would strongly disagree that I’m doing anything of that. (Clarified it, in my own writing).
Its general definition means the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.
It’s important to distinguish between the political and ideological aspects of Zionism and the actions taken by individuals or groups in its name. The idea of Zionism itself does not inherently call for or imply ethnic cleansing. Zionism, like any national movement, has a range of perspectives within it, including those that seek peaceful coexistence and mutual respect between Jews and Arabs in the region.
The history of the region is complex and marked by conflict, and there have been instances where actions taken by some in the name of Zionism or Israeli statehood have been criticized and are a subject of ongoing debate and conflict. However, equating Zionism itself with ethnic cleansing oversimplifies the situation and does not accurately represent the intentions and beliefs of many who identify with Zionist ideals.
The terrorists won that one? Not sure they’d agree. I guess they thought they were going to retreat into the tunnels and nobody was going to blow the tunnels up on top of them.
Any just war is an escalation of violence if nothing else.
Therefore by your logic, a just war causes terrorism.
The implication by your logic is that no war should be had so as not to cause terrorism.
I would agree if you said all war causes vengeful losers to resort to desperate acts of violence against innocent people. I do not agree that a just war should be called off because the enemy on the receiving end of that justice will probably lash out in its death throes. That would be called negotiating with terrorists.
If you are worried about more terrorists, I agree bombing terrorists causes more terrorists, but negotiating with them opens the floodgates. And it’s not like we don’t have enough bombs.
No, I said quite the opposite - that escalation of violence is the goal of terrorism. But I would agree that escalation of violence tends to create more terrorism, with the caveat: if the original conflict is not resolved in some manner.
Any just war is an escalation of violence if nothing else.
I have no idea what you mean by just war. But I would disagree that any war is just escalation of violence. Wars mostly have rather clear objectives.
The implication by your logic is that no war should be had so as not to cause terrorism.
Nope. That’s not implication of my logic. But yes, in most cases wars will produce terrorism if the underlying conflict is not resolved. The underlying conflict might get resolved by war or intelligent occupation strategy (interesting to take a look at west and east Germany in that regard, especially in the context of the rise of the AfD, new german nazi party).
The problem is, before they wemt on that murdering spree, the western world pretty much ignored their plight, or maybe tutted when they chucked a rocket or two over the border. But any kind of “proper” political solution was flatly ignored. It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I umderstand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude. And look, they actually have a tonne of eyeballs and attention on their shitty situation (and shitty leaders), so maybe something will come of this. Palestinians are paying an exorbitantly heavy price for it, though.
Reminds me of this.
She’s got the energy we all need if we’re ever going to eat the rich.
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Sure, but again - if you murder people at a music festival and take hostages, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that terrorists won that one.
Sure, but again, if you indiscriminately kill innocent people in Gaza and destroy the very last university, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.
Absolutely. Not sure why you would think I don’t understand the hatred Israel is getting.
Not sure what Israel won, despite making sure there will be another generation of Palestinian freedom fighters with rather questionable methods.
I wasn’t making a statement about you, I just wanted to demonstrate the statement can be made in any way.
I agree, Israel bred the Hamas of tomorrow for sure. But they did win in terms of getting closer to turning Gaza into a settlement.
But you were responding to a actual person, me. So it would have helped if you clarified it wasn’t about me - don’t you think?
Even that sounds to me like a win for the terrorists - but I can see, people have different view.
It’s directed to you. It just makes no statements about you personally, just responding to your opinion. Hope that clarifies it.
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We do live in a dystopian world after all: “We are pleased to inform you that your house has been selected for a bombing due to acute terrorist threat. Please leave the area immediately. We are thankful for your cooperation.” Only missing Judge Dredd.
“OH yes and you only have 2 minutes to leave… But sometimes we skip the warning because Hamas might find out and flee too… That would ruin our chances of killing the terrorists! Thank you for understanding.”
That’s great.
Does Hamas ever probe any of their bombings? Does Hamas ever give a warning before it launches rockets into Israel? Does Hamas give a shit if it targets a college or a hospital or a school? Has Hamas ever charged one of its fighters with War crimes?
No. If Hamas blows up a coffee shop with 50 kids in it, the bombers family member gets a nice pension, probably paid with Iranian oil money. No warnings. No accountability. Actual indiscriminate killing of civilians.
You keep asking me why I credit what the IDF says. Well, they actually have some culture of transparency and see, you credit them, too.
You’ll see from my history that I was on your side until recently, but I’ve pretty much done a 180. You can’t blame civilians for the government that they weren’t born to vote for and even if they did vote for them, you really can only engage combatants. If you starve out and kill civilians, that’s war crimes and it’s making Israel look bad and that unfortunately makes antisemitism worse globally since Israel is lauded as being the Jewish homeland. It’s totally problematic, and I am firmly against the current Israeli government and don’t feel that Zionism requires genocide. It is extremely counterintuitive and shows we have learned nothing from the past. History is repeating itself. You can’t generalize an entire population of being subhuman to make it easier to justify extermination. People forget that these were modern urban areas and a large portion of the population just want to live in peace.
I was not talking about myself. I was making a general statement - that if people who are perceived as part of your (not personal) group murder people at a festival and take hostages, some people might become less sympathetic with the general cause of your (not personal) group no matter how valid it might be. The same if you level a city and bomb hospitals - you (not personal) might have a good reason, but people will get upset.
I assume you are using this as a general you, not me personal - since I would strongly disagree that I’m doing anything of that. (Clarified it, in my own writing).
How? It’s pretty much baked in.
Its general definition means the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel.
It’s important to distinguish between the political and ideological aspects of Zionism and the actions taken by individuals or groups in its name. The idea of Zionism itself does not inherently call for or imply ethnic cleansing. Zionism, like any national movement, has a range of perspectives within it, including those that seek peaceful coexistence and mutual respect between Jews and Arabs in the region.
The history of the region is complex and marked by conflict, and there have been instances where actions taken by some in the name of Zionism or Israeli statehood have been criticized and are a subject of ongoing debate and conflict. However, equating Zionism itself with ethnic cleansing oversimplifies the situation and does not accurately represent the intentions and beliefs of many who identify with Zionist ideals.
The terrorists won that one? Not sure they’d agree. I guess they thought they were going to retreat into the tunnels and nobody was going to blow the tunnels up on top of them.
The concept of terrorism in general. Once again it was able to achieve an escalation of violence and therefore create more terrorism.
So in your view there is no such thing as just war? Any war is terrorism?
How on earth did you arrive at this conclusion?
You said escalations of violence cause terrorism.
Any just war is an escalation of violence if nothing else.
Therefore by your logic, a just war causes terrorism.
The implication by your logic is that no war should be had so as not to cause terrorism.
I would agree if you said all war causes vengeful losers to resort to desperate acts of violence against innocent people. I do not agree that a just war should be called off because the enemy on the receiving end of that justice will probably lash out in its death throes. That would be called negotiating with terrorists.
If you are worried about more terrorists, I agree bombing terrorists causes more terrorists, but negotiating with them opens the floodgates. And it’s not like we don’t have enough bombs.
No, I said quite the opposite - that escalation of violence is the goal of terrorism. But I would agree that escalation of violence tends to create more terrorism, with the caveat: if the original conflict is not resolved in some manner.
I have no idea what you mean by just war. But I would disagree that any war is just escalation of violence. Wars mostly have rather clear objectives.
Nope. That’s not implication of my logic. But yes, in most cases wars will produce terrorism if the underlying conflict is not resolved. The underlying conflict might get resolved by war or intelligent occupation strategy (interesting to take a look at west and east Germany in that regard, especially in the context of the rise of the AfD, new german nazi party).
You don’t understand the concept of just war?
Before that murdering spree it was just other murdering sprees all the way back. Suicide bombings, bombing medical convoys. Hamas are terrorists.
Nobody is denying Hamas are terrorists.
But I doubt many people would act differently given the same circumstances.
This person… It never sticks with them. They think we are opposed to the IDF committing genocide because we like Hamas lol
Seems like people are denying that though. Got people all over Lemmy sucking Hamas off and copy and pasting Iranian disinformation.
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Boooooo. This existed before Hamas.
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Booooooo