• ryathal
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    9 months ago

    If you’re being punched in the gut, it’s not reassuring that the other option is going to use a bat instead.

      • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Ya, Trump bad and all, but maybe it’s Biden who should do more to get the anti-genocide vote. Isn’t getting votes part of his job?

        • gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          9 months ago

          No, the president gets our votes automatically because he’s got the job already and can beat the mean fascist man without tying! All we have to do is verbally abuse anyone criticizing Biden and we’ll surely have him as president again and there’ll be no problems come 2028 or anything!

          • Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            there’ll be no problems come 2028 or anything!

            Downvote them all you want, it’s a very poignant point that’s left at the wayside of defeating Trump right now. Joe wins in ‘24? The threat of a second Trump presidency is deferred, but he has fundamentally transformed American politics regardless

            • Wrench@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              “Deferred” like he’s likely to be back in 2028. Extremely unlikely he will be eligible by then, and even more unlikely he’ll even be able to mentally/physically fit enough to campaign. He’s already falling to pieces.

              • Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
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                9 months ago

                So? He’s the alt-right iconoclast currently yes, but the undercurrent was there in the McCain-Obama race, and Trump demonstrated the easy mode to power of populism to the RNC. Look at the current House shitgibbons, and how most of them have survived reelection, look at who just stepped down at the RNC to make way for a groomed successor.

                Trump going to jail, being disqualified, or succumbing to himself wouldn’t unopen that box.

                • Wrench@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Yes, others will claw over each other to try to be the next idol. It doesn’t mean anyone will succeed.

                  There is no 100% win on the table here. Absolutists like you need to accept that sometimes, you just need to take the win you can get, and work towards incremental improvement for the next time.

                  And no, communist revolution won’t solve anything, nor is it even remotely possible.

                  • Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
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                    9 months ago

                    Who mentioned communist revolution? Quit building strawmen, tf

                    You’re delusional if you think Trump is an aberration. He isn’t a hive mind leader, but he has shown the right how coded and open fascist language can be used by a demagogue to gain and wield power. That message has been well and roundly received on the right, where realpolitik never died.

                    I’m no absolutist, but the moderate left needs to stop pretending they care about progressive votes when the party’s selection process is entirely performative. Are we a coalition of unity, or subservient fringe? If I don’t matter enough to have a say, why do I matter enough to be bullied into compliance?

                  • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                    9 months ago

                    There is no 100% win on the table here

                    That’s funny because when I look at Biden he looks like the perfect moderate candidate to me. Seems to me they got 100% of what they wanted.

              • crusa187@lemmy.ml
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                9 months ago

                This would be even better for the fascist regime than if he were healthy and vibrant. Caption some pictures of him saying he approves their message, trot him out for an occasional appearance at a big yearly event, and then they are free to do whatever they want with his “blessing.” They need Trump as a galvanizing symbol, nothing more.

              • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                And the establishment Democrats will intentionally elevate someone just as crazy or worse than Trump.

      • kava@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        I’m starting to believe the worse guy isn’t much worse after all. I wanted Biden to win because of promised immigration reform. He promised to halt the expansion of the wall. Give a pathway to all the people under DACA suffering in eternal immigration limbo.

        What does he do instead? Continues the Trump administration’s policies of using COVID loopholes to deny people at the border seeking asylum. Then he expands construction of the wall he promised to halt, and meanwhile does a couple photoshoots at the border with CBP officers.

        Of course, absolutely squat was said about DACA or the millions of people who were filled with hope in 2020 after Biden won. Now we know the hope was a scam. It was all an illusion. A mirage.

        My main reason I don’t want Trump is because he is racist and xenophobic against Latin Americans. But if Biden is following in his footsteps virtually exactly…

        Why should I give a shit who becomes president? I don’t like Trump but there’s no way I’m voting for Biden. I want him to lose. I want the Democrats to realize they can’t just do this forever. I want them to change their strategy. If I vote for Biden and he wins, they learn nothing. They will continue lying and being hypocrites forever.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          If Trump wins, you may never get a chance to vote for another president.
          Trump is a narcissistic sociopath, to even try to compare the 2 on the level of evil they are capable of, is extremely naive. Also Trump is a traitor who is willing to sell out American interests to Putin.
          You may be disappointed with Biden, but there is zero doubt he is the lesser of 2 evils by far. Especially if you are not a billionaire.

          • kava@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            If Trump wins, you may never get a chance to vote for another president.

            what is the difference between not being able to vote and being forced into voting for one candidate you hate?

            Trump is a narcissistic sociopath, to even try to compare the 2 on the level of evil they are capable of, is extremely naive

            i think you are the one being naive. trump cannot be the eternal boogeyman that justifies giving the democrats a blank check to do whatever they want. they are both equally shit. trump’s a xenophobic racist who was aspirations to be another mussolini, biden actively supports genocide and does not give a single fuck about the people who put him in power.

            there is no lesser evil here. just two different types of evil

            • ovalofsand@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              You’re right. Getting beat with a bat isn’t really that different from getting punched in the gut. Thank you for all your incredible logic. I really needed it.

              • kava@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                to follow your analogy, if you have to choose between two different forms of violence then you don’t actually have bodily autonomy. you don’t have a choice of “no violence”.

                the logic is there, even if you choose to dismiss it

                • ovalofsand@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  Oh! I get it. So all we need to do is not be in the reality that we’re in and we wouldn’t have this choice. Thank you. I was getting anxious about the possibility that Trump would be our president again. We can have better choices if we change the reality in which we live.

      • Wrench@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Progressives in a nutshell. They will be upset with the status quo no matter what.

        Even if Bernie was nominated and elected, progressives would have turned on him within a year, because he wouldn’t have been able to get policy passed without major concessions, which would then alienate the progressive base for not being perfect.

        • hark@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          “If you don’t like our hellscape status quo then you’re just looking for perfection” - out of touch democrat stans

        • Tremble
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          9 months ago

          So you support genocide, but you’re mad that progressives don’t?

          Really? You believe that’s a good talking point?

          Wow.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          They will be upset with the status quo no matter what.

          I’d love to hear about a time when the status quo was such that progressives shouldn’t have been upset. Everything progressives and leftists care about is trending in the wrong direction and moderates are just like “you wouldn’t be happy with anything”.

          Prove it.

        • TBi@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          You are correct. People expect big sweeping changes and are upset when it doesn’t. What people need to realise is that it’s like a rudder on a giant ship. If you keep voting left then you slowly move left. Which also means any time the right wins we stay on course or move further right.

          People need to take a long term view.

        • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Even if Bernie was nominated and elected, progressives would have turned on him within a year, because he wouldn’t have been able to get policy passed without major concessions, which would then alienate the progressive base for not being perfect.

          I’m gonna borrow this, very succinct.