Reading their rationale, yes, I think there’s a very good chance they’ll defederate kbin.social as well, sooner or later, regardless of how moderation here works.

#justfediversethings I guess.

Is it possible for them to defederate from kbin completely?

I’m a Beehaw member; also a kbin member, but I wasn’t able to get on here until tonight because it had been so laggy a few days ago that I’d given kbin up as unusable. To answer your question, I don’t like it but I do understand it. It sounds from what they’ve said that they basically had no choice; they were overwhelmed.

That said, I’m now VERY glad that I have a kbin account. I just re-created my subscription list (including magazines from both of the banned instances) here. I just hope kbin isn’t going to ban them too?

And just in case anyone is wondering: I expect to keep using both Beehaw and kbin (and my other Fediverse accounts, for that matter; I’m on Mastodon, BookWyrm, and Paper.wf). It’s nice to have a low-stress refuge like Beehaw sometimes But I want to be able to access the whole wide world when I choose, too!

Most support it, although not all. They’ve been clear ask asking that they were trying to build a well-moderated space so it aligns With why most people are there - saw one person say that their first post had been hit by right-wing trolls from one of those instances, so if that’s happening then defederation makes sense.

They advertise themselves as a safe space.

being safe and being open are somewhat detrimental to each other.
They choose to be less open, to be more safe.

Fine by me, but I’d expect them to turn into a LGBTQIA+ (is that the current one?) echo chamber before long.
And maybe I’ll be wrong, and that’ll be fine too.

That’s the beauty of the Fediverse - everyone gets to make the rules for their own instance, and you choose the instance you want.

There will be widely federated instances, entirely private instances (I’m looking at one for our work intranet) and everything in between.

From what I have read it was about the difficulty moderating such a large userbase which is perfectly reasonable. The great thing about Lemmy is that anyone who disagrees can start their own server and run it however they want.

@LollerCorleone What I understood was that the moderation was difficult now, due not only to the size of the instances but also with the fact that almost all the people were new and the communities are not stable yet.
Since they have a quite high moderation standard, I guess that now, with few resources and a fast grow, it is difficult to keep it. And this standard is a commitment to the own community, people joint the instance because of it.
Another issue to take in account is that the moderation tools are not enough to handle with the problems of big and heterogeneous social networks. If I understood, in Lemmy and Kbin the only possibilities are to be federated or not, but not something in between like in Mastodon (the silence option).

@Shortcake

this comment about it is great: https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/22433/Beehaw-defederated-us#entry-comment-90015

"I think it’s easy to take this personally but I think it’s more about the moderation tools in Lemmy not being adequate at the moment so this is the best bandaid solution for now. We need to quickly put effort into developing better moderation tools like limiting other servers without fully defederating, limiting specific communities, forcing nsfw on communities/instances, proxying reports to origin servers so admins have better feedback on their instance user’s bad behavior, and many other things if we want to prevent defederating like this from being the only option.

I think infighting about this decision and differing moderation styles instead of focusing together on moderation challenges and tooling deficiencies risks tearing the community / federation apart and is counterproductive to the goal of being better than reddit."

there will be growing pains.

Nah, don’t worry about it, beehaw’s always been shit

If you are a subreddit drama enjoyer this exact sort of thing only adds more appeal to the fediverse.

Uh… that’s unfortunate because many will just interpret it as federation being bad

IRC networks sometimes split. That didn’t mean that they didn’t generally stay together. Just that there were several major networks and a some isolated servers.

Usenet, as far as I know, generally remained one network, but occasionally saw Usenet Death Penalties.

XMPP supports federation, but organization, like businesses, exist that choose to use isolated XMPP servers.

we can still see and interact with both. Ernest has not defederated with them at this time so we should have few issues. As a community on this instance we need to use this platform in good faith to assure we arent banned/defederated with

What bad actors? I didn’t see anything. I thought maybe it was a traffic thing?

The content of an instance is copied to another instance as soon as users request it and if both instances are federated

As for beehaw users, I assume we and our communities simply do not exist, right?

Don’t say “we”. We don’t know who you are unless we hover on your username and I guess mobile users cannot even do it anyway.

There’s a kbin app called “kmoon” in development.

Have you tried it out just in the browser? Kbin’s mobile interface is pretty great. Also if you use Safari or Firefox you can very easily “install” the webpage as an “app”, or use something like Native Alpha to do the same thing (but I think most mobile browsers offer this feature.)

from what I understand… each instance is like a country and the Beehaw government just banned passports to/from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works. Citizens can hold dual citizenship but getting beehaw citizenship will have higher requirements. kbin is also open sign-up but not banned because it’s users are more chill for some reason.

You know how some subreddits would ban you if you posted in another one? That’s basically all this is. We’re on lemmy.world which is less guarded, so we’re lumped in with troublemakers.

Just like with reddit, the solution is to make a new account without affiliation to the defederated groups. There’s a bajillion smaller lemmys out there that will likely never get defederated, and it makes the most sense to have one of those be your home vs the largest instances, now that we can see this kind of problem will occur.

Okay this is what I’ve gathered so far, someone please correct me, Lemmy is one type of instance on the fediverse when they were federated with beehaw they would see beehaw posts and vice versa. This is no longer the case, as far as I understand it you can still go to beehaw and create an account to browse it but you won’t have access from your Lemmy account. IMHO this makes sense to me, it’s like an entire sub going private.

Does that mean I need to create a separate account on Beehaw to view their stuff now?

If you’re subscribed to any communities on @beehaw.org, then yes. After defederation, none of the new content from there will appear on your lemmy.world account and vice versa - people at @beehaw.org won’t see your posts on lemmy.world.

Why does this stuff have to be so complicated?

This is how fediverse works. There’s no “central place”, there’s currently 333 Lemmy servers. Each of them is free to take their own decisions regarding moderation and who they want to exchange content with. I know it probably feels complicated compared to centralized approach, but that’s the core of these federated services. It’s not different from Reddit subs banning users for posting in other subs.

Is Lemmy actually a viable Reddit alternative or not?

I guess time will tell, but if the Twitter meltdown-migration is a reference, then no - majority of people will go back to Reddit after the blackouts are over (I guess today).

You could sign up with a smaller one that federated with all three.

It does. But just don’t bother.

Beehaw will die off now that it’s walled itself off, and replacement communities in the rest of the fediverse will replace it.

The system is built to be resilient to stuff like this.

Moderators just carving out a chunk of the Fediverse for their users is just unacceptable.

The Fediverse is made up of independent websites, and the people who operate those websites have freedom of association.

Full stop.

Right, but how is it any different than half the users on a subreddit leaving and starting their own? People will always get together in groups and will always naturally begin to despise one another for whatever reason.

It sucks, but it’s just the way it is. If people don’t want to interact with one another, there’s no point in forcing them to do so.

join
a
smaller
instance