So uh… Israel… I’m pretty sure “never forget” doesn’t mean “we should practice it so we don’t forget how to conduct an efficient genocide”
There were tunnels under that food
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
And the USA funds the genocide
And acts as the good guys to boot.
Wouldn’t genocide be an effort to kill all Palestinans everywhere, like the millions in other Arab states?
You know, instead of focusing on the elected government of Gaza (who still has 57%+ support amongst Gazan civilians), who targeted 1200+ civilians intentionally in one of the worst terroist attacks of recent memory?
Definition Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
in whole or in part. Not that you care, just for anybody wondering what the Geneva convention says. Though people should not base their morality on law, even UN law.
Which is why Hamas who is intentionally co-locating (and the target of the attacks) in what would otherwise be protected targets is a war crime.
If Hamas was not using civilian shields and being aided by the majority of Gaza residents who support them, then absolutely it would be a war crime.
It’s just that unlike many armchair legal scholars here, I’m aware that the intended terrorist targets make this a nonsense legal argument. Again, without Hamas there you’d be correct.
The convention isn’t written in a vacuum. And misusing and diminishing the term genocide a bad idea.
being aided by the majority of Gaza residents who support them
“It’s not genocide, but if it is they deserve it”
Fucking disgusting Nazi logic.
Stating a fact that’s not convenient to your false narrative: “you’re a Nazi”. I realize there are people here who can not reason or be reasoned with—its sad.
Stating a fact that’s not convenient to your false narrative
Which fact? That Gaza civilians deserve to be slaughtered because of their alleged support of Hamas?
Honestly who are you trying to convince here?
no, collective punishment by genocide is about as Nazi as you get, then again, no wonder you got upset at it, you don’t even view “brown people” as human, they are all Terrorists, every Gaza Child is nothing but another terrorist, so why not kill them?
The genocide of Palestinians by Israel has been going on way longer than Hamas has existed.
I am no armchair legal scholar, I 've already argued against placing too much value on legality. It is you on the other hand who tries to minimize the severity of Israel’s wrongdoings by arguing pseudo-legalistic semantics.
If the 1948 convention never existed, Israel’s actions would be just as reprehensible.
In case anyone is on the fence about this issue and doesn’t realize this is easily disproven misinformation, there hasn’t been an election for the president or legislature in Palestine since 2006.. Hamas has maintained a stranglehold on the region for seventeen years by discontinuing elections.
Even if that was true, this is a bad faith argument anyhow: it’s entirely possible to focus on the atrocities being committed by both sides. Rivermonster simply seems to enjoy regurgitating Israeli propaganda.
Except that still males them the official and elected government. It’s weird that you want to ignore the facts. That you decide they’re illegitimate just bc it doesn’t fit your narrative is what’s wrong.
They still have majority support amongst residents. If there were an election today, they’d dominate. Who do you think would win? The PLA, Fatah, and West Bank can’t get rid of them fast enough. They want Hamas in there, too.
I will remind you that current official members of the Israeli government mocked a holocaust survivor by saying they deserved it, and if it were up to him, it would have been twice as bad.
Don’t look to me to defend Likud. They’re war criminals.
yet the brown ones are WAY worse, got it
Why are you so fixated on PoC, are you a racist? Plus, the way you call them “brown ones” is really not okay. Your rhetoric makes it sound pejorative and derogatory.
And you do know that there are both Israelis and Jews who are PoC, right? It doesn’t sound like you know that.
That’s true, the elected government of Gaza is a horrible fascist state and they are just as bad as the monsters who are gunning down civilians in that region. However that doesn’t mean the people of Gaza aren’t worth saving and don’t have value. I just don’t understand why, when we’re talking about a relatively small strip of land, the Palestinians can’t have their own self-governed state, free from interference by Israel. Or is that just too much to ask for in this world.
I cannot help but think of nazi Germany when I read this. It’s very similar
They gotta learn that somewhere…
Retired IDF General Israel Ziv told CNN he had seen the videos and was so disturbed by them that he reached out to IDF commanders in charge of the soldiers involved.
“I was (told) that the brigade commander will punish the ones who did that once they stop fighting,” he told CNN.
In its statement to CNN, the IDF said that “disciplinary measures will be taken regarding the soldiers involved.”
In other words, they’re only interested in punishing the ones that get caught, and they’ll only process it well after it’s happened so they can just deliver a slap on the wrist.
In other words, they’re only interested in punishing the ones that get caught, and they’ll only process it well after it’s happened so they can just deliver a slap on the wrist.
By definition, you can only punish the ones that get caught.
Actually the Israelis are very strong supporters of collective punishment, given their stance on Palestinians I would have thought they would execute the families of entire platoons.
Has anyone else noticed how prolific rivermonster is in this thread? And how their comments are full of half-truths that always favor Israeli policy? Weird, isn’t it?
I can’t figure out if they spread propaganda and disinformation professionally or if they just have a hard on for Jewish ethnostates or Muslim genocide.
Watching their mental gymnastics as they try to justify Israeli’s actions in Palestine while decrying Hamas’s similar behavior is always good for a laugh. Plus how they accuse anyone critical of Zionism to be a Nazi or anti-semite. They’re kinda the worst type of person.
Spamming the comment section with pro israeli comments or even just muddying the waters. I’ve seen it with a few posters, including rivermonster. It distracts those reading from the real issue being discussed, usually israeli crimes against humanity.
Well, from his comment history he is single minded at best.
generally, they also have problems with the concept of “before / after” or literally say they ignore anything that disagrees with their statement
Just block 'em and move on 🤷♂
Someone posting a lot of comments in a thread doesn’t necessarily mean much, beyond them engaging with the thread and replying to multiple comments as they scroll through. That isn’t to deny their bias, just to point out that their presence and bias doesn’t necessarily point to some kind of organised action.
Edit: ok I didn’t have to (nor think I would have to) scroll far down to see that they are clearly a troll. The whole “it’s important to counter false narratives”, while clearly delivering a biased narrative, pretty clearly shows they’re not an honest actor.
deleted by creator
They’re not Hamas, that’s who intentionally targets children. And then also hides behind them after terrorist attacks so as to hopefully cause more civilian deaths so people can be manipulated into outrage at the wrong people.
Israeli propaganda is obvious propaganda.
Pro Hamas / terrorist adjectent… always a bad look.
look, unlike the IDF, we don’t support killing 6000 children
But really, you do by not seeking to hold Hamas accountable for all that they’ve caused. They’ll shoot rockets into Gaza hospitals as long as they rial up the antisemitism on world news. And I watched em take the bait. Same reason they’re maximizing civilian casualties by hiding in the densest urban theater of war we’ve seen.
You shouldn’t support them.
yes, Hamas should come out, and they with the IDF can have right good honorable pistol dules at noon
Israel’s army is apparently much closer to Russia’s than the US’. This is disgusting and pathetic.
Israel itself is culturally very similar to Russia. Living in Russia, I’ve always been amused how their public picture is so different in everything.
Removed by mod
All armies rape
And violates Geneva Conventions. No non-combatant shall be harmed.
Which is why most non-Russian armies make it criminal instead of a mission objective.
No one’s saying the US military are a bunch of faultless angels. But there’s a certain line of morality they are expected to keep, and conduct like that is illegal. They’re expected to disobey unlawful orders, and shit like this is unlawful.
Shit goes on at army bases and you’ll hear about soldiers being shitty off and on base, but you never see the US military devolving into petty thugs like this in active combat.
Typically we save that for the police back home. And I wish I were being sarcastic.
Both Russia and the elected government of Gaza (Hamas) target civilians intentionally. Hamas even targets Gaza hospitals. Probably thought false flagging Israel would be great PR, and it did work well on the worldnews crew.
I’d say Gazas elected government, and Russia are much closer.
Demographic from Wikipedia:
0–14 years: 44.1% 15–24 years: 21.3% 25–54 years: 28.5% 55–64 years: 3.5% 65 years and over: 2.6%
something like 75% of all Gazans were either not born or not of voting age when the last elections were held 16 years ago.
Goddamned time traveling Palestinians!
As though this changes the fact that they’re the officially elected government in Gaza and that 57% support them from the latest polling?
Weird perspective.
damn, imagine you need to justify killing brown people so hard you would use Assad support numbers.
Fun fact, there can be no accurate survey of opinion in a region controlled by a group that kills you for having the wrong one
Fun fact, when the actual facts and empirical data don’t support your false narrative, you claim facts don’t matter and that there’s no such thing as facts.
LOL, I also understand a false character attack, like accusing someone of supporting the killing of PoC, when your argument is factually bankrupt and poorly reasoned. Makes sense, and it suits you.
I DO support killing all members of Hamas because they’re terrorists and intentionally target civilians and have always done so. Nice try on the libel, though.
ok, for the eternally slow, there can be no accurate political polling done in an authoritarian regime, it’s like going around and asking people in Nazi Germany if they support the Nazis, what are you going to do say no and get put into the camps?
and how is “Hamas” defined? to kill all members of Hamas you need to kill every single Palestinian to be sure
Anyone harping on how Hamas is the “elected” government when they haven’t had elections in, what, 16 years, is just simping for Netanyahu’s genocide. I see you felt the need to say “elected” twice just to be really obvious about it.
It’s important to counter these false narratives being thrown about that they’re not the official elected government with, to this day, majority support amongst residents.
Lmfaoooo you’re a complete troll. “It’s important to counter false narratives” when every narrative you provide is clearly false.
You are qutie clearly intentionally inciting people, and it isn’t really working in your favour here.
Trying to inject reason and facts into this proHamas circle jerk isn’t trolling. But I can see how facts that conflict with false narratives could incite the guilty individuals.
It’s not antisemitic to be anti Isreali government. Especially when they have been actively doing terrible things for years. Like targeting journalists
Absolutely, fuck Bibi and fuck Likud. And before October, there are a slew of war crimes they should be tired for at the ICC.
No one here is pro-Hamas.
You are pro-terrorism, so long as the terrorists are on “your team”.
Exactly what I’m trying to tell you. Stop being pro-terrorist. It’s awful.
and the IDF targets civilians even when they aren’t “at war”, your point being?
Israel targets civilians. The vast majority of buildings targeted by Israel since 7 Oct have been “power targets”, which, by their own definition, are targets that do not have significant military value but have value in that they can destablise civilian life such that the civilians might put pressure on the government to change.
Israel are literally using violence against civilians to achieve a political goal. That is the very definition of terrorism.
No one can argue that the events of 7 October were not terrorism. Roughly 2,000 people invaded Israel to commit terrorist acts. In response, Israel have committed their own form of terrorism and killed 20,000 people, very few of which were actually members of Hamas.
Your argument is a near perfect example of the pot calling the kettle black.
Israel is using violence against Hamas. Whos goal is to maximize civilian casualties in the hopes of sparking a wider war and gaining more allies than just Quatar, Iran, Hezbolla, Houthis, Iraq, etc…
They want another coordinated Arab state attack, just like the multiple ones that have failed in the past. Over and over, the Arab states have tried to destroy Israel. Hamas is quite clear they will only rest once Israel is destroyed and the Jews killed.
Israel has been forced by Hamas to fight in the densest urban theater immaginable, again, because Hamas wants to maximize Palestian deaths for PR.
Hamas strips protected targets of their legal status by co-locating. This is by intent.l and designed to spark the kind of outrage you see here among posts falling prey to this tactic and supporting terrorists.
I’m not sure what you want Israel to do? Ignore the attack? That hasn’t worked for all rockets that have been launched at civilians in Israel. It hasn’t worked for all Hamas’s suicide bombers ans bus bombings, etc. It arguably encouraged the October attack by allowing them safe haven over and over. I’m curious what they should do instead?
Hamas could end the violence that’s killing Palestinians today. Easily. Just stop hiding behind them and surrender. But considering they have 57% support among Gaza residents, and the PR is being effective (just look around worldnews), why would they?
I’m not sure what you want Israel to do? Ignore the attack?
I want Israel to wield their power and superiority in such a way that takes the moral high ground.
Hamas invaded Israel and killed civilians and ransacked their homes.
Israel invaded Gaza, bombing the city and killing civilians before ransacking their (vacant) homes.
Military action should be focused on military objectives. Neither side is doing that, thus both sides should be derided for their actions in this regard. They behave differently, but both share strikingly similar flaws.
Hamas could end the violence that’s killing Palestinians today. Easily. Just stop hiding behind them and surrender.
Israel are far more capable at ending things right now than Hamas. If Hamas surrendered, Israel could easily come up with some other excuse to keep pressing. If Israel stopped, Hamas would not be in a position to perform another 7 Oct attack. Israel are not defending, they are very clearly on the offensive.
At the end of the day, the real goal here is to expend ordinance and buy more, thus financing the weapons industry. An end won’t happen until profit targets are met (assuming the goals don’t just get stretched further).
I’m still waiting to hear what you think they should do?
I want Israel to wield their power and superiority in such a way that takes the moral high ground.
That sounds nice, but there’s nothing specific or actionable. It amounts to telling them to “buck up camper” or “just take it on the chin.”
Thr military targets operate in civilian places intentionally. Hamas wants as many dead Palestinians as possible.
I’m not trolling, I genuinely reflect on this a lot and wonder myself what other course they have. They’ve tried ignoring the terroist attacks for ages. Or just some tiny response that does nothing to disrupt Hamas’s ability to project terror and war crimes.
Israel are far more capable at ending things right now than Hamas. If Hamas surrendered, Israel could easily come up with some other excuse to keep pressing.
If Hamas did and Israel kept going, then they absolutely would be guilty of warcrimes and worse. Without Hamas, there they have no legal basis for the war, and most of their targets would revert to protected status.
I’d be with you shouting for prosecution if that happened. But I definitely disagree with you that that is how it would play out. There is not a lot of point in debating a hypothetical, though.
That sounds nice, but there’s nothing specific or actionable.
Ok, to be specific, I would like Israel to focus on military objectives only. Right now, they are deviating far beyond that and extending their rules of engagement, far beyond anything reasonable.
I would also like it if Hamas focused on military objectives. Attacking a music festival with a peace motif is heinous, particularly when it is down the road from a military base.
The Geneva convention already provides scope for dealing with bad actors who use civilian infrastructure for military purposes. Israel exploits this and attacks civilian infrastructure directly, using this exemption as an excuse without proving their postition is valid.
Meanwhile, Hamas completely ignores everything and also attacks civilians directly.
The methods are different, but the end result is the same.
Oh, please tell me what you think of IDF killing their own:
An initial IDF probe into the hostage killing incident suggests all three men were shirtless, with one carrying a makeshift white flag.
On seeing them, one Israeli soldier shouted “terrorists!” to the other forces, initiating fire at the men, according to reports.
While two hostages were hit immediately and fell to the ground, the third managed to escape into a nearby building where despite pleas in Hebrew, he was also shot and killed, a military official said.
In an environment where that’s the standard tactic of Hamas, hide behind civilians, yeah, I understand the friendly fire. This is Hamas. They blew up their own hospital, hoping ppl like worldnews would blame Israel for it… and they did.
If you think that while hiding amongst civilians or while keeping hostages they aren’t trained to try and appear like innocents, then I don’t know how to help you. It’s literally their main tactic.
wow, we are getting into these conspiracy theories, ya? well I’ll tell you that the IDF killed those 1300 Israelis.
now for some real info: Netanyahu supported Hamas to stay in power by targeting their opposition, there would be no Hamas if not for the Ethnostate government in Israel right now.
You joke, but I’ve seen sick people make that claim that the IDF killed all the victims. It’s as palatable as Alex Jones mocking the dead children.
Now for some real info:
Perez was winning and going to beat Bibi, publicly proclaiming that he will still pursue a two state solution with Arafat. Polls also showed strong national public support for a two state solution.
Hamas couldn’t have that, so right before the election, they executed a series of suicide bombings and bus bombings killing many civilians (which they always target). Immediately after that, Bibi won by less than a percent. Bibi paid them back by helping them get rid of Arafat, who still (publicly at least) claimed to want a two state solution.
Bibi and Hamas have been working together tightly and deeply ever since. They are the same people. If love to see Bibi tried for war crimes and many other Likud members.
All of this is fact, go do the reading if you don’t believe it. Hamas made Bibi.
Bibi and Hamas have been working together tightly and deeply ever since. They are the same people.
Ok now I’m drinking your Kool-Aid. However, the one caveat I would make is that it isn’t really “Hamas” here, it’s Iran, encouraging Hamas. Suffice it to say, there’s lots of political puppetry going on in this region.
The vast majority of Palestinians weren’t alive for the last Yom Kippur war - 50 years ago to the day of the 7 October holiday. Bibi was alive. It stands to reason that most Palestinians don’t even know what happened back then, let alone remembering it, but Bibi absolutely should have expected something on such a key anniversary. Instead, beforehand Bibi stirred shit with all the IDF troops, left weak border security on the day with clear single points of failure, then claimed ignorance when everything hit the fan.
However, him directing war crimes does not absolve the Israel troops who are actually committing war crimes. Both should be punished.
All pre-october apartheid war crimes absolutely. They don’t change bc of October and the collective punishment of civilians war crimes and more need to be held ICC.
But post October and until Hamas is gone, I think proving war crimes would be exceptionally difficult. Because of how they operate and their provable intent to cause as many casualties as possible, it makes it difficult to argue protected status for most targets right now.
100% with you, this isn’t just Hamas, it’s Iran, Quatar, Iraq, Hezbollah (not all of Lebanon), Houthis (not all of Yemen), and on and on. Pretending this is just Hamas is a bad call for sure. Most here do it here for ignorance or to feed an intentional false narrative about an underdog.
nah, Hamas only took the opportunity they had been waiting on, Bibi had to redeploy the IDF from the Gaza border in order to help pogrom the West bank animals
Hamas took the opportunity of striking on the 50th anniversary of the last Yom Kippur war, and Bibi had no way of seeing that coming?
According to the IDF, Hamas did not fire a rocket on the hospital. They attributed that to the Islamist Jihadist group - a separate organisation.
Meanwhile, all the “tunnel networks” under Al Shifa hospital, that Israel touted as proof of Hamas using hospitals for military purposes, were in fact basement operating rooms that Israeli contractors built in the 1980’s, and so far have not been shown to be connected to any military tunnels.
The most moral army of the only democracy in the Middle East! If you disagree, you’re homophobic since some of these soldiers are gay
Eh?
Right?
You could say the same about any army. There are some soldiers who are gay in all regiments around the world. But they aren’t there to be gay, they’re doing their job and in a way that’s maybe one of the better things about armies - they tend to be not so concerned about your sexual habits as much as your proficiency in combat.
Fuck this shit.
Removed by mod
Tragic how the abused has become the abuser.
This is not tragic. This is, has been, and will always be Israeli foreign policy. Ever since the state was created, they were supposed to be a “foothold of civilization in the region”. They have constantly settled outside of borders and into Palestinian territory, and then defended their settlements with their superior firepower. They have constantly waged this type of unorthodox war. They supported Hamas as a tactical strike against the more moderate candidates in Palestine, because you can’t paint moderates as the aggressor as easily - this worked wonders for their PR - they managed to clean their image, because they had an enemy that looked even worse.
Make no mistake friend - Israel has never been the abused, and throughout their short lifetime as a state they have only abused. They have been conducting an ethnic cleansing in the area. The only hope Palestinians have is that history books write the truth, but seeing as how Israel’s money isn’t running out and their reach is long, even this seems unlikely - just look at all the support they still have despite their foreign policy being literally genocide.
Israel has never been the abuser, and throughout their short lifetime as a state they have only abused.
I believe you need to edit that… Not in the context of you being “wrong/right” or anything opinion based like that, just that its contradictional… I don’t think it’s what you meant to actually say is all :)
I believe it’s a simple typo. Should be “never been the abused” and d and r are close to each other.
In addition the founders of Israel broke the international Anti-Nazi boycott to build their right wing ethnostate. This is who they have always been. Their support of the Nazis directly contributed to the holocaust.
Yes, ever since being created, the Muslim world has attacked over multiple wars with multiple arab states coordinating. And fortunately they have lost over and over.
Since the creation of Israel, the Muslim Arab world has stolen the land of 800,000+ jews who lived all over the Arab states. Though you’d never know it reading comments here bc worldnews only feigns outrage at Jews, not on land theft as a principal.
Meh, never mind, I’m already tired of debunking this silly propaganda virtua-nazi rant. You know your lies.
Your calling anyone else a liar is the height of irony. Israeli genocide apologists all seem to follow the same pattern: spread misleading, often factually incorrect talking points and call anyone with a view critical of Israel a Nazi and/or an anti-semite.
People are catching on and see through your bullshit. We see that nearly every accusation is a confession, as is often the case with fascists.
You’re projecting bruh.
Lol, is that the best you’ve got? It doesn’t even make sense.
What makes you think these guys have ever been abused?
Nazi subhuman trash (the IDF)
Don’t dehumanize people ever, please. War crimes need to be pointed out and punished, but neither nazi nor subhuman is a reasonable accusation.
Fucking CNN blocks firefox? wtf
We apologize, but your web browser is configured in such a way that it is preventing this site from implementing required components that protect your privacy and allow you to view and change your privacy settings. This functionality is required for privacy legislation in your region. We recommend you use a different browser or disable the “EasyList Cookie” filter from your “Content Filtering” settings (found under “Settings” -> “Shields” in the Brave Browser).
No issue for me, sounds like you’ve got some settings they don’t like, rather than explicitly blocking Firefox.
However I’ve had worse websites that just simply don’t work in Firefox at all. I mean, they do load, but there’s no ability to scroll, thus you cannot see the bulk of the content. An example: https://idno.vattenfall.co.uk/
Works fine for me even with adblocking & tracker bloacking.
worked for me, FireFox Ublock, ABP, and no-script
Works fine for me. Firefox, Android, and within the EU.
It opens fine for me on Android
Try replacing “edition” with “lite” in the URL
Dehumanising the enemy has always been a feature of war and long-driven conflicts like this. Soldiers everywhere are taught to believe the enemy are pests and lesser than them.
