Proton’s services have been fully open source and regularly audited for years now. Until an audit reveals something or they start locking things down, they are a great option. You shouldn’t refuse to use a service because they might change their mind one day. Unless you expect everyone to roll their own everything.
Gmail was never open source. It was just very ahead of its time with its integrations/offerings.
You shouldn’t refuse to use a service because they might change their mind one day.
Sadly, when it comes to privacy, yes you should. Because privacy today does not equal privacy tomorrow. You can’t magic all your data out of their systems if things change. That’s the issue. I can take their privacy promises today, but if those promises can be changed on a whim by new owners… what good is that privacy promise? It isn’t.
Proton sells privacy. A privacy that can be rescinded.
Unless you expect everyone to roll their own everything.
I know it’s kind of an elitist attitude, but yeah, I fucking do. If they’re really concerned about their privacy.
Ed Snowden didn’t roll up to Glenn Greenwald and go “Yeah, just use any off-the-shelf messaging service that says its private.” No, he made Greenwald roll up his own.
So you expect the average person to host their own email, cloud file storage, VPN, and web calendar?
Nope, just people who care about their privacy.
You have to live in reality dude. I mean, are you hosting your own instance (I see you have a blahaj account)? Do you not have any logins online on sites that are closed or you don’t control? Do you pay an ISP and let them handle your traffic? Do you use any streaming services? Do you use Steam or play console games?
I am living in reality, and you’re literally making my argument for me.
Just because I understand the implications doesn’t mean I’m a privacy nut myself. I understand the limitations of privacy on the internet, which is why I felt the need to comment on the idea that as long as someone else controls it, it’s not really private. It’s much like cryptocurrency in that respect “Not your keys, not your crypto.”
I’m not saying everyone should do this, but people who are using services like ProtonMail who think they’re a panacea are fucking naive and really should be considering better options if they’re that concerned.
The only way to have real privacy is to disconnect from it all, own your own hardware, and internet connection. I don’t mean renting one from Xfinity. I mean literally owning your own infrastructure. It’s nearly impossible unless you’re ridiculously rich and incredibly tech savvy. Even with that, your data will still pass through other infrastructure not owned by you.
Yet people are dumping money into privacy services whose privacy rules can be changed at any time.
It’s great they’re all open source, but you’re still putting your data on their servers. If the business changes hands, or just changes how they operate, you only have their word that your data is removed, if you want to remove it.
That’s the point I’m making. If you really want online privacy, you’re going to have to go real far to get it, and putting your faith in third parties is just the same game we’ve been playing for decades already. When you give you data to a business, it’s no longer “your” data, it is now a business record.
Sorry that talking about the reality of it means I should go out into the woods myself or something. You can accept the reality without feeling the need to do it yourself, you know? It’s why such services are pointless because they can’t actually offer you a permanent promise of privacy.
@SnotFlickerman what do you work at facebook or something? this kinda privacy doomerism is honestly way worse than any false promises by nordvpn or whatever.
nobody should evaluate security or privacy by looking at something and saying ‘is this perfect?’ because of course it isnt. security is all about understanding the risks youre taking, and choosing to accept risks that are manageable - and that’s absolutely something like proton can help you do
Proton’s services have been fully open source and regularly audited for years now. Until an audit reveals something or they start locking things down, they are a great option. You shouldn’t refuse to use a service because they might change their mind one day. Unless you expect everyone to roll their own everything.
Gmail was never open source. It was just very ahead of its time with its integrations/offerings.
Sadly, when it comes to privacy, yes you should. Because privacy today does not equal privacy tomorrow. You can’t magic all your data out of their systems if things change. That’s the issue. I can take their privacy promises today, but if those promises can be changed on a whim by new owners… what good is that privacy promise? It isn’t.
Proton sells privacy. A privacy that can be rescinded.
I know it’s kind of an elitist attitude, but yeah, I fucking do. If they’re really concerned about their privacy.
Ed Snowden didn’t roll up to Glenn Greenwald and go “Yeah, just use any off-the-shelf messaging service that says its private.” No, he made Greenwald roll up his own.
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Nope, just people who care about their privacy.
I am living in reality, and you’re literally making my argument for me.
Just because I understand the implications doesn’t mean I’m a privacy nut myself. I understand the limitations of privacy on the internet, which is why I felt the need to comment on the idea that as long as someone else controls it, it’s not really private. It’s much like cryptocurrency in that respect “Not your keys, not your crypto.”
I’m not saying everyone should do this, but people who are using services like ProtonMail who think they’re a panacea are fucking naive and really should be considering better options if they’re that concerned.
The only way to have real privacy is to disconnect from it all, own your own hardware, and internet connection. I don’t mean renting one from Xfinity. I mean literally owning your own infrastructure. It’s nearly impossible unless you’re ridiculously rich and incredibly tech savvy. Even with that, your data will still pass through other infrastructure not owned by you.
Yet people are dumping money into privacy services whose privacy rules can be changed at any time.
It’s great they’re all open source, but you’re still putting your data on their servers. If the business changes hands, or just changes how they operate, you only have their word that your data is removed, if you want to remove it.
That’s the point I’m making. If you really want online privacy, you’re going to have to go real far to get it, and putting your faith in third parties is just the same game we’ve been playing for decades already. When you give you data to a business, it’s no longer “your” data, it is now a business record.
Sorry that talking about the reality of it means I should go out into the woods myself or something. You can accept the reality without feeling the need to do it yourself, you know? It’s why such services are pointless because they can’t actually offer you a permanent promise of privacy.
@SnotFlickerman what do you work at facebook or something? this kinda privacy doomerism is honestly way worse than any false promises by nordvpn or whatever.
nobody should evaluate security or privacy by looking at something and saying ‘is this perfect?’ because of course it isnt. security is all about understanding the risks youre taking, and choosing to accept risks that are manageable - and that’s absolutely something like proton can help you do
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deleted by creator
@SnotFlickerman where’s your Lemmy instance
Don’t bother he’s a troll