Japan prepares regulation requiring Apple to allow sideloading::As the Digital Markets Act antitrust law passed in the European Union, Apple has until March 2024 to let users…
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Having app developers be able to avoid Apples forced 30% fee is great. The fee is pure rent seeking masquerading as curation.
30% might be a bit much, but Apple and Google are offering ongoing services for the price you pay as a developer. From hosting, to payment processing and APIs you can use in your apps, I think what they’re offering has some monetary value that would be acceptable if it wasn’t so damn much. I don’t think it’s toxic rent-seeking in and of itself. What’s pretty toxic is that there’s no way around those fees on Apple phones and tablets.
The #1 thing they provide is exposure.
The vast majority of users simply won’t download and install something they find on a website on their phones.
Thankfully, it seems like places like the EU and now Japan are considering ALL use cases, not just the majority of them.
Unless it’s fortnite and has a giant marketing engine behind it
Even I don’t install random apps if they aren’t on the playstore or fdroid
Agreed, If it wasn’t a forced arrangement I wouldn’t necessarily nave a problem with the price
I suspect you’re just repeating arguments you’ve heard, so don’t take this internet rage personally, but that is complete bullshit.
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Hosting costs nothing. Devs will gladly foot the bill for that if given the option. Even if you distribute your apps on AWS (which is notorious for severely overcharging on egress), your expenses will be no where near 15%-30% of your revenue.
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Payment processing is a competitive field outside the appstores. Even 15%-30% is ludicrous when “overpriced” processors like stripe charge 2%-3%
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APIs are not something sold to developers. They build them as part of the operating system because they have to. That’s how it works. They could try selling licenses, but it would result in devs not building on their fancy new features.
(you didn’t mention the ones below, but people with your argument usually do, so I’m adding them for completeness)
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Security is also bullshit. The Appstore and Play store are FILLED with malware. It is not physically possible to manually review the sheer volume of apps published to those stores. They also are not incentivized to improve the process much, because each time your kid or grandma accidentally activates a $40/week subscription, Apple/Google take a 15%-30% cut.
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Curation/promotion is bullshit. Discoverability on these stores has always been bad, but has been particularly awful since both Apple/Google have started selling search ads in the store. The other day I almost accidentally downloaded a fake ChatGPT app because it was the first result when I searched, it had a very similar icon, “ChatGPT” in the name, 5 stars, and millions of downloads.
These stores also heavily incentivize devs to push subscriptions. I suspect (but haven’t confirmed) that the Appstore and Google Play both rank subscription based apps higher than others, and subs tend to pay a lower revshare fee than other monetization types.
I could go on all day about the rotten dumpster fires that are these disgusting stores. The only people who defend them are fanboys and people who have never actually had to deal with them professionally.
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The high price is a result of monopolistic exclusivity.
Their curation is terrible too. The app store has so much shovelware crap
legislation is expected to be sent to parliament next year and focuses on four areas: app stores and payments, search, browsers, and operating systems.
We also get Linux on iPhones??
And the talk is just about sideloading… :-)
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I personally can’t wait for open sourcing of mobile drivers / driver apis. That will finally allow stuff like turning off phone components for Linux mobile system and not have gyro for some specific phones.
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Wouldn’t putting Android on an iPhone be redundant? It would have less features and capability for a higher cost.
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What’s up with the creative commons link?
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Are you saying Android has less features and capabilities? Or am I reading it wrong?
You’re indeed reading that incorrectly. You can see clearly that I’m saying the iPhone with Android OS has less features for a higher cost (Compared To an Android Phone).
The reason that’s implied is because I included cost, because comparing an iPhone with Android to an iPhone with iOS the cost wouldn’t change at all.
iPhone has less lenses, lower megapixels, less zoom, and the charging cables are less effective or in many cases use proprietary charger instead of USB-C, among other things.
Ahh I see, thanks!
The reason I was confused is that I was assuming this is about older iPhones, you know, the ones Apple is deliberately slowing down. So installing a lightweight Android ROM could give them a new lease on life.
I would assume it’s to use the chips but that only works if they’re forced to provide proper drivers for the full hardware
Big if true. Apple owners might actually be owners of their devices.
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By and large, probably… But I don’t think it’s true for everyone.
As an iPad owner myself, I would love to ditch the OS! And I suppose alternative OSes would be pretty popular with the people jailbreaking their phones.
I don’t want to impose alternative OSes on others. I would just like the option for me!
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Not true. I’d love to be able to jailbreak again. I’m locked in to the ecosystem by work and a backlog of apps 15 years deep.
Granted I’m on Lemmy so I guess I’m not a normal iOS user
Yeah it’s literally a status symbol amongst kids.
My kid is desperate for one but can’t give me a single compelling reason apart from they’re seen as cool.
I like Apple products because they just work. I have tried Windows, Linux, & Android, but I ultimately decided on just using the Apple Ecosystem (except for my gaming computer) because the products just work well. Sure they cost more and are locked down but I am willing to sacrifice those things for things for the boost in productivity.
Apple isn’t for everybody but their products have upsides.
They just work (usually) if you want to use their products the way they want you to use them.
If you have your own idea how to do something on your own that’s any different, you will slowly go insane.
They just work (usually) if you want to use their products the way they want you to use them.
Well… Yeah? That’s the case for most products.
Why downvotes? They are both right, with an exception of MacBooks. Otherwise, you are limited by use cases predicted by the manufacturer, even if it “just works”.
I use both iPhone and MacBook, with the latter mostly as a Unix that, again, “just works”, but I can even go as far as compile whole GNU userspace natively with Gentoo Prefix (one of many options).
Cuz it makes no sense. You wouldn’t complain that the iPhone doesn’t work as a skateboard because they don’t want you using it as a skateboard. It doesn’t work as a skateboard because it’s not a skateboard. All companies design products to be used the way the company wants you to use them. If op is talking about it being super locked down, that’s also incorrect. I can disable plenty of the security features on Mac and it continues to work just fine, compared to windows where if you disable UAC you literally cannot use your computer the same way and it will bug you constantly. It’s just a trope that isn’t really true at all.
Just give your kid an iPhone from AxiExpress
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lol right
Good luck getting any of the hardware to work properly without Apple’s help.
It’s actually not that hard once you have access. ARM Chips can be difficult to get into, but programming for them is not that hard. The peripherals and other segments might be married components but that should be fine as long as they don’t get swapped out at any point.
Based Japan once again. I would love to see other countries requiring this too, but I’m not going to hold my breath unfortunately.
I mean, the EU has already done this and now Japan is doing the same. So i guess it’s very well possible that other countries besides Japan will also follow suit.
Hehe Brussels effect go brrrr
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I think India and Brazil have also made initial efforts.
I tried to install an old version of San Andreas recently on my phone cause the last update broke controller support (which I actually bought with money).
Apparently we don’t own our Android OBB directories anymore because of “safety”.
So far the “we Android users already have this”…
Yep, it’s unfortunate that manufacturers are taking more and more control away from users. That’s why open-source software like Linux is so important, you can do anything you want to with it.
Back in the old days, Android OS used to be Open Source. You can still get firmware built up from the last release, such as CalyxOS, but in order to install it you have to buy directly from Google with the Bootloader Unlocked as a feature.
Not really. Fairphone also has the Bootloader unlocked.
That’s true.
Are Fairphones feasible right now if one wants to play even intense games like emulating PS2 or Switch?
Idk. Give me your Emulator and i’ll try it for you
No shit, really? You’re the man.
The emulator is called AetherSX2.
Now, for ROMs… I’d gladly share the link for one here on Lemmy, but idk if I’d be violating any rules
I’ m sorry, bu you’re going to have to send me the links for the bios, game etc.
I really don’t think it’s against any rules here.
God I miss the old days of android…the OG droid, everything was unlockable, no fuckery. Google hadn’t yet slowly started adding data collection by ways of slowing moving functionality away from the core AOSP.
It still is open source, btw. But they’re just intentionally choking it to death. They’ve recently announced they’re not going to maintain the open source PHONE APP…FOR THEIR PHONES…for christ sake. They’ve even had a new replacement OS in the works for a couple years.
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish sadly
The old version of Android OS is still open source, but the new versions of Android OS are NOT open source, and I think that’s an important distinction to make because otherwise we might accidentally pander or market to people who put faith in that sort of thing.
Yeah Android is Linux. But Manufactures are limiting it so hard that it is sometimes nearly impossible to get a custom ROM on the phone.
Yes. The openess of the operating system is meaningless if the phone’s firmware isn’t open.
It’s open source so that anyone can manufacture a phone for it (good for business), not so you could install whatever you want on the hardware (bad for business)…
Yeah but unfortunately with Android it’s what Google wants and not what the end-user wants. That’s why Linux itself is very important, the user gets to decide what they want to do with it.
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sideloading would be nice; i have no idea how people can get proper work done on an ipad as of now (especially with apple at one point acting like it was only a matter of time for them to replace laptops). everything is so overly glossy and surface level and designed for children or the elderly; you can’t actually DO anything!
Even with side loading, you will still be pretty limited as the iPad is decently locked down. First of all it needs a decent window manager. That alone would go a long way.
But honestly, these things should be running full blown macOS when they are docked to a mouse and keyboard.
They had an 11” air at one point, so screen size can’t be the issue.
This could be the real “pro” iPhone. Running m3, acting as a phone by itself and throwing a full macOS with Office and Adobe Cloud apps when docked.
Yeah! Even if not an m3, the chip in the 15 pro is good enough for most people. If you really need more power then, get an m3.
I’d love if my phone was my computer in that way.
Yuh-huh! Just get a terminal emulator from the App Store. I will be just a few dollars a month. Then you can ssh into a Linux server you have somewhere.
See it’s an entire computer!
So a $1,200 thin client?
No you do not get it.
At Apple we make magical devices that are unlike anything done before. We have truly revolutionized computing with over priced hardware.
If you don’t have a Mac then you are not cool and not good at your job.
I’m just going to sit in the corner with my 4070 and be poor then. Sorry to not be cool! Also, my bubbles are green.
4070 and be poor
I mean yeah, you fell for nVidia’s scam.
That’s the point. They want people to use devices where information is given to them, but they can’t interact with it or give something back.
They literally want us scrolling tiktok all day before it’s time to get ready for work.
That’s also where the Web is now.
People are saying that Flash was bad and HTML5 with heavy JS and all the functionality of modern browsers is good.
Such people are either fine with it, or don’t understand that downsides of Flash (or Java applets, or whatever else) were defined by its advantages, which were much more important.
A lot of kids or young people with no particular interest in IT\CS\engineering would use Flash for animations or little cute things which made their simple, possible back then websites more alive. (I’ve just looked at such one site, abandoned with some trace of a resurrection attempt in 2019, and it’s gorgeous.)
You had to know less to make your own stuff in that old Web than you have to know now.
The Web is by its purpose a networked global hypertext system, a living library with common participation.
That some people want to repurpose it, think they’ve been successful at it, and think others will go along with their wishes, - is sad, but should have no weight.
I don’t take a laptop with me when I travel, because the iPad is more than enough for my work needs for a few days. Working with large spreadsheets is the only thing I absolutely need a computer for.
I have friends who are programmers and regularly work on just an iPad. As I understand it, they only need a computer for some more horsepower-hungry parts of their workflow.
The real problem with iPads is iPadOS. It’s intentionally gimped so you need a computer for some tasks. The iPad Pro has more than enough processing power and memory for full workloads (as well it should, given the price point), the OS is the restricting factor.
My iPad has basically become a YouTube machine. There are no useful productivity features, no file manager, and no good games coming out that aren’t already on PC with mods.
Back in 2013 I loved my iPad, but now I’m thinking of just getting a surface
What real work can even be done on any tablet that is not running desktop OS? I guess you could write stuff or edit spreadsheets, but that’s it.
“Write stuff” and “edit spreadsheets” covers 75% of corporate america.
Cool. This would be great. Hopefully a push to allow that in all other countries.
This has been necessary since the damn thing launched.
It’s your phone. Not Apple’s. This pocket computer belongs exclusively to you. That’s what the money was for.
What kind of dumbass spends that money on a device that doesn’t do what they want it to?
Let’s avoid blaming victims. There should be no product that’s the wrong product, for exercising your rights.
Not that I appreciate anyone funding this abusive company, sixteen years on.
Victims? What a dumb take. It’s not like apple allowed side loading and then pulled the rug out. Do you get pissy if you buy a car and find out it doesn’t work underwater?
You sound like the neck beards bitching about the Barbie movie. Of course they didn’t like it, it’s not for them, it’s made for little girls. If you want to sideload, the iPhone isn’t for you. It’s for people who don’t care about that. That’s most people. I can’t imagine going through life so entitled that you believe every product needs to cater towards your use case.
Fuck off if you’re going to lob insults and ignore the argument.
These are your rights. It is your computer. It should do what you fucking tell it to.
I’m not wasting another second on you if your idea of discourse is ‘this is what you sound like, myeh myeh myeh.’ Childmove nonsense.
Fuck off if you’re going to lob insults and ignore the argument.
I didn’t ignore your argument. People who buy a device knowing what it’s capabilities are, and then whine that it doesn’t do more, are dumb. Your argument is dumb.
These are your rights. It is your computer. It should do what you fucking tell it to.
Right and responsibilities are two sides of the same coin. What about your responsibility to know what you’re buying? What about the rights of people who want the curated experience a walled garden approach gives them? You know, the ones iPhones are designed for. The people who bought the right phone for their use case.
I’m not wasting another second on you if your idea of discourse is ‘this is what you sound like, myeh myeh myeh.’ Childmove nonsense.
If you don’t want me to point it out, stop sounding like that I guess.
‘You should know it’s broken!’ Nothing should be sold broken, this way. Stop blaming the victims of this abuse. Stop parroting Apple’s excuses for a decision obviously fueled by naked greed.
No company should have the ability to do what Apple does to iPhone users.
Android also has a walled garden. If you want to stay in it… you can just… not leave. No such option exists for iPhone users, and it’s been intolerable bullshit for sixteen straight years.
‘You should know it’s broken!’ Nothing should be sold broken, this way.
It’s not broken. It works exactly as it was designed and marketed. It’s not for you, and you apparently can’t conceive of a device made for anyone else.
No company should have the ability to do what Apple does to iPhone users.
Sell them exactly the experience they paid for?
Android
Interesting point, Android exists. What’s stopping you from buying one if you don’t like the iPhone? Why are you so entitled that you believe apple should cater to your use case when there’s a myriad of other phones you could buy?
Now that’s what I’m talking about.
Life finds a way
Great, now force them to open up their NFC, so mobile banking apps can skip Apple Pay for their contactless payment feature
Usb-C, side loading, what’s next? APK or snap packages compatibility?
It’s happening guys, apple is start to a open source platform
I was against sideloading, because I’m in it for the walled garden and if governments were to use their own stalls to publish their apps, then, actually it doesn’t matter anymore! Our gov apps still invasive anyway, imo.
For the clueless, the particular app scans your face with various coloured screens being blasted through the phone screen, doesn’t matter if you have face ID enabled or not, its their own scan.
Power to sideloading.
You being paid by apple to fear monger about sideloading?
If you fear this, just leave the sideloading to others.
Wherever I ever see a comment complaining about sideloading, I just assume they’re an Apple financed marketing shill.
Even if they’re just a brainwashed moron, the argument is so stupid they deserve nothing but ridicule.
My biggest issue is cancelling recurring services. The Apple model requires that all your subscriptions appear on a pane of glass that you can notice if you signed up for a free trial and it’s been billing you $2.99/month because you wanted to read your kid Dr. Suess books on a flight when you were exhausted. Good luck figuring that out if you only have “$2.99 STRIPE BABELBOX INC” on your credit card bill.
Um, I said I believed before. I don’t believe it works anymore (walled garden). And that the government apps already doing this in the walled garden. Even said power to sideloading….
And I get downvoted to oblivion?
Probably also for the Q-Anon level lunacy with the government apps n stuff.
Sorry for wanting privacy then.
Wanting privacy is OK, and your link to the video on the face ID of the bank also helped explain what you where talking about.
It’s the way you wrote it that came across if you where some conspiracy nutcase and that causes downvotes.
Many people share concerns about the use and storage of PII by for profit companies and governments without any oversight on what actually happens with the data. It is good that waryness on who you provide what data to is Becoming more mainstream. I remember years ago people would look at me funny if I replied “no thank you” when asked my zip code in a store. Now a lot more people do it.
Your initial comment makes very little sense ( to me anyway)
Yeap its my mistake. Poor wording.
About 90% of my apps from fdroid. A Foss store that will do they’re best to ensure no anti or invasive features break through to my phone. I am certain that apple will have a similar store.
Yeah, I’ll even go as far as to say that because F-Droid apps are usually not for profit you get actually good apps without ads or trying to sell you anything.
They’re just an app that some dude found they needed and developed, and then made available for everyone else.
This is the most jarring difference I find when I go to the App Store, so a FOSS repository for iOS would be so huge.
And I’m sure of that. Suffice to say it doesn’t matter because Apple’s walled garden allowed the Gov’s invasive app regardless.
Just to be clear: it doesn’t matter because the walled garden sucked and didn’t work and I don’t mind a third party store anymore.
You guys downvoting me do realize that I’m fine with sideloading right?
Your first sentence, after the comma, should say “because I was in it…”. That was a bit confusing.
And then you went completely off the rails with some colored light government conspiracy stuff.
So I think that’s causing the downvotes.
Yeap that’s my bad.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=araYz3X2Q5g&pp=ygUac2luZ3Bhc3MgZmFjZSB2ZXJpZmljYXRpb24%3D 40 seconds in.
Yeah I know
That’s just financial apps using selfies for id verification. They’ve been doing that for years with crypto exchange apps.
