Maybe Israel shouldn’t fund Hamas over secular orgs to manufacture the pretext for the genocide they’re now committing in order to create an ethnostate.
Funding might be true. But do we have real evidence that it was done precisely for what you described? Did someone specific decided “let’s give them money, so they would build rockets to bomb us, then invade to kill our citizens in an attack we’ll be unprepared for and then have all the right to obliterate them and nobody would stop us”?
Incredibly loaded framing aside, what’s your explanation for Israel backing a Jihadist group, and helping them displace moderate, secular alternatives while consistently using genocidal language and displacing Palestinians?
I’d say it’s not loaded framing on my side, but convoluted assumptions (and possibly clairvoyance) on the other.
I may not have the explanation of why “Israel funded hamas”, but I know that half the world funded Palestine for years, and that most of that help naturally must’ve went through hamas.
Simply put, it doesn’t seem like Israel could avoid funding Palestine. Hamas could’ve put that money in improving lives of citizens.
Israel put a terrorist org that’s hostile to them in neighbouring territories they’re trying to ethnically cleanse via genocide and you can’t figure it why? I suppose critical thought was never fascists’ strong suit.
International funding went to Palestinians via aid orgs - not Hamas. That said, anything that did go to Hamas was because Israel put them in power - you don’t get to put terrorists in power, commit war crimes, then whine when the international community sends aid to the people you’re genociding. Israel is also a recipient of $3.8 billion dollars every year in US military support alone - that’s comparable to the total amount of internal aid sent to Palestine between 2014 and 2020.
The problem isn’t Israel funding Palestine - it’s with them funding a terrorist group to put them in power, removing the secular moderates that were in place already… You know - so they could justify the genocide they’ve been loudly telegraphing they want to commit.
You don’t get to play the victim on this one, Jitler.
it’s with them funding a terrorist group to put them in power
And I thought it was Palestinians who chose hamas during elections. The other candidate was also a terrorist group if I’m not mistaken though, so really don’t see how complicated the plan of Israel should’ve been for everything to play out exactly as it had.
so they could justify the genocide they’ve been loudly telegraphing they want to commit.
So basically the plan was “Kill us, so we could kill you” all along, huh? This is some flat earth level conspiracy.
Hamas is a terrorist org that Israel backed to replace the secular moderates - this isn’t half as complex as the narrative knots you idiots tie yourselves in to defend the genocide - in not sure why you’re finding this difficult.
So basically the plan was “Kill us, so we could kill you” all along, huh? This is some flat earth level conspiracy.
They’ve been signalling genocidal intent for years, but can’t just do it without losing the US backing they need to not get obliterated by their neighbours. Why else did they help the hostile jihadists over the secular moderates? Again, really straightforward stuff.
Meanwhile, you use Nazi-tier logic to defend Nazi-tier actions.
First, the whole matter of some country being able to affect political groups in another country being normal, as you’re saying about it, is more than lousy to say the least. Israel did not create hamas. Israel could not know how it will act over the years. Israel could not know who will win the elections.
Second, proposing the idea that a modern non-jihad government would put their own population at risk of terrorist attacks in order to have a chance to do genocide of other population is ridiculous.
Third, if the “second” thing above is incorrect, they would instead fiddle with the iron dome. More specifically, there would be no iron dome in the first place - they would take all the rocket hits they could in order to show the world how aggressive terrorists are and invade Gaza asap.
you use Nazi-tier logic to defend Nazi-tier actions.
I don’t know what to say here. What nazi-tier even means is beyond me. But you here basically operate with extremes like every actor does exactly what they are programmed to do. It seems to me that even if some investigation will conclude that Israel, in fact, did not intent to fund any specific group, you’ll still find new twists in order to make Israel guilty of what hamas did.
Israel did not create hamas. Israel could not know how it will act over the years.
Noone said Israel created Hamas - but for them not to realise that they would be openly hostile to Israel given their rhetoric would represent a literally unbelievable level of incompetence on Israel’s part. Dumb and/or dishonest.
Israel could not know who will win the elections.
They threw enough money at Hamas to help them successfully win the election. Not a guarantee, but a definite finger on the scale. Dumb and dishonest.
Second, proposing the idea that a modern non-jihad government would put their own population at risk of terrorist attacks in order to have a chance to do genocide of other population is ridiculous.
A few of hundred Israelis traded for the extermination of the Palestinians and the annexation of their territory is implausible to you? Just about any force that’s conducted an annexation has paid a greater price than this - look at Russia right now. Israel aren’t Islamic, so jihadist isn’t a great characterisation, but they’re theocratic and genocidal - a distinction without a meaningful difference. Dumb and/or dishonest.
they would instead fiddle with the iron dome.
Why? It works well enough, and they haven’t bothered to invest further in it with Hamas in power and years of rocket attacks? Seems as though Netanyahu isn’t too concerned about a few hundred Israeli deaths, no? Dumb or dishonest.
What nazi-tier even means is beyond me
A far-right wing fascist ethnostate doing warcrimes and genocidal bullshit. Dumb and dishonest.
What did these Israeli government representatives mean when they said…
Prime Minister Netanyahu
They (Israel/IDF) are committed to completely eliminating this evil from the world,”
and
You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.
and
I don’t call them human animals because that would be insulting to animals
“Defence” minister Galant
We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly
Kallner…
Nakba to the enemy now! This day is our Pearl Harbour. We will still learn the lessons. Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. A Nakba in Gaza and a Nakba for anyone who dares to join!
Atbaryan…
erasing all of Gaza from the face of the Earth. Gaza needs to be wiped out.
Halevi…
goals for this victory. One, there is no more Muslim land in the land of Israel. After we make it the land of Israel, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom.”
In case you don’t remember your Torah, here’s a refresher on the Amalekites…
I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
Ok so you’re against Israel providing work permits to Palestinians?
Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.
From one of your articles, they’re literally complaining that Israel allows Palestinians to have jobs in Israel and saying that this practice of not totally starving out Palestine is proping up Hamas.
Since Netanyahu returned to power in January 2023, the number of work permits has soared to nearly 20,000.
The article is angry at him for something you almost certainly use the opposite of as a reason to call it an apartheid state or open air prison or whatever, this is something you surely think should happen right? Palestinians should be able to work in Israel, right?
They go on to talk about how he shouldn’t be letting aid money into Gaza, etc
And do you agree with this from the article?
One thing is clear: The concept of indirectly strengthening Hamas — while tolerating sporadic attacks and minor military operations every few years — went up in smoke Saturday.
They argue that anything less than total military destruction of Hamas is equivalent to support, they want a boodier and more brutal war which is why they’re saying the claim in the headline - surely you don’t agree with that? Surely you don’t think that Israel shouldn’t let aid into Gaza and should attack more violently? Therefore surely you don’t agree with the claim in the title.
You’re parroting headlines without reading the article, probably because you’ve heard the claim repeated by so many people who also didn’t bother to read the article and just assumed it validated their existing view.
Ok so you’re against Israel providing work permits to Palestinians?
I’m against apartheid states that requires people of ‘undesirable’ ethnicity get work permits.
And do you agree with this from the article?
Yes - Israel has done away with sporadic attacks and launched into a more rapid genocidal approach.
Imagine defending an apartheid state committing a genocide, pointing to the apartheid to say there’s not apartheid, and rapid escalation in indiscriminate killing to say there’s not genocide.
You’ve purposely tried to redirect the topic to avoid the very clear fact that the conspiracy theory claim you made is based on them doing things that you think they should be doing.
You just spoke about the current conflict as worse than what was happening previously, the article you used up back up your conspiracy theory that Israel created Hamas is based on the argument they should have had a similar reaction sooner and that it should be more extreme.
You say genocide which I presume you count as starting before this current conflict and is based on the flimsy arguement they don’t let enough aid though, etc but you also want to use the flimsy arguement that they’re letting too much aid through which is propping up a terrorist organisation.
The reality that you don’t rely know or care about what you’re talking about is very clear, you’re throwing around buzzwords and meme talking points you haven’t even thought about and have no idea of how they relate to the wider situation. You’ve decided your team thinks Israel is bad and you’re on a quest to amplify that because you feel it will make you look like a passionate and intellectual person - unfortunately these hamfisted and empty arguments you’re making just make you look like a gullible blowhard.
The genocide that Israel is talking about pretty transparently as they indiscriminately bomb the shit out of civilians is a conspiracy - you got it, Jitler.
So your original claim? You’ve forgotten about that and your not going to respond to anything I’ve said but will continue to throw out emotive but meaningless statements?
Maybe you meant the funding Hamas piece - here’s Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s telling a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat.
The Israeli government gave me a budget, and the military government gives to the mosques.”
Unsurprisingly, Arafat also referred to Hamas as
A creature of Israel
Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades speaking to the WSJ…
That Israel is committing a genocide? Here’s a parade of their political leaders saying as much…
Prime Minister Netanyahu
They (Israel/IDF) are committed to completely eliminating this evil from the world,”
and
You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.
and
I don’t call them human animals because that would be insulting to animals
“Defence” minister Galant
We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly
Kallner…
Nakba to the enemy now! This day is our Pearl Harbour. We will still learn the lessons. Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. A Nakba in Gaza and a Nakba for anyone who dares to join!
Atbaryan…
erasing all of Gaza from the face of the Earth. Gaza needs to be wiped out.
Halevi…
goals for this victory. One, there is no more Muslim land in the land of Israel. After we make it the land of Israel, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom.”
In case you don’t remember your Torah, here’s a refresher on the Amalekites…
I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
Maybe Israel shouldn’t fund Hamas over secular orgs to manufacture the pretext for the genocide they’re now committing in order to create an ethnostate.
Funding might be true. But do we have real evidence that it was done precisely for what you described? Did someone specific decided “let’s give them money, so they would build rockets to bomb us, then invade to kill our citizens in an attack we’ll be unprepared for and then have all the right to obliterate them and nobody would stop us”?
Incredibly loaded framing aside, what’s your explanation for Israel backing a Jihadist group, and helping them displace moderate, secular alternatives while consistently using genocidal language and displacing Palestinians?
I’d say it’s not loaded framing on my side, but convoluted assumptions (and possibly clairvoyance) on the other.
I may not have the explanation of why “Israel funded hamas”, but I know that half the world funded Palestine for years, and that most of that help naturally must’ve went through hamas.
Simply put, it doesn’t seem like Israel could avoid funding Palestine. Hamas could’ve put that money in improving lives of citizens.
Israel put a terrorist org that’s hostile to them in neighbouring territories they’re trying to ethnically cleanse via genocide and you can’t figure it why? I suppose critical thought was never fascists’ strong suit.
International funding went to Palestinians via aid orgs - not Hamas. That said, anything that did go to Hamas was because Israel put them in power - you don’t get to put terrorists in power, commit war crimes, then whine when the international community sends aid to the people you’re genociding. Israel is also a recipient of $3.8 billion dollars every year in US military support alone - that’s comparable to the total amount of internal aid sent to Palestine between 2014 and 2020.
The problem isn’t Israel funding Palestine - it’s with them funding a terrorist group to put them in power, removing the secular moderates that were in place already… You know - so they could justify the genocide they’ve been loudly telegraphing they want to commit.
You don’t get to play the victim on this one, Jitler.
What?
And I thought it was Palestinians who chose hamas during elections. The other candidate was also a terrorist group if I’m not mistaken though, so really don’t see how complicated the plan of Israel should’ve been for everything to play out exactly as it had.
So basically the plan was “Kill us, so we could kill you” all along, huh? This is some flat earth level conspiracy.
Hamas is a terrorist org that Israel backed to replace the secular moderates - this isn’t half as complex as the narrative knots you idiots tie yourselves in to defend the genocide - in not sure why you’re finding this difficult.
They’ve been signalling genocidal intent for years, but can’t just do it without losing the US backing they need to not get obliterated by their neighbours. Why else did they help the hostile jihadists over the secular moderates? Again, really straightforward stuff.
Meanwhile, you use Nazi-tier logic to defend Nazi-tier actions.
First, the whole matter of some country being able to affect political groups in another country being normal, as you’re saying about it, is more than lousy to say the least. Israel did not create hamas. Israel could not know how it will act over the years. Israel could not know who will win the elections.
Second, proposing the idea that a modern non-jihad government would put their own population at risk of terrorist attacks in order to have a chance to do genocide of other population is ridiculous.
Third, if the “second” thing above is incorrect, they would instead fiddle with the iron dome. More specifically, there would be no iron dome in the first place - they would take all the rocket hits they could in order to show the world how aggressive terrorists are and invade Gaza asap.
I don’t know what to say here. What nazi-tier even means is beyond me. But you here basically operate with extremes like every actor does exactly what they are programmed to do. It seems to me that even if some investigation will conclude that Israel, in fact, did not intent to fund any specific group, you’ll still find new twists in order to make Israel guilty of what hamas did.
Noone said Israel created Hamas - but for them not to realise that they would be openly hostile to Israel given their rhetoric would represent a literally unbelievable level of incompetence on Israel’s part. Dumb and/or dishonest.
They threw enough money at Hamas to help them successfully win the election. Not a guarantee, but a definite finger on the scale. Dumb and dishonest.
A few of hundred Israelis traded for the extermination of the Palestinians and the annexation of their territory is implausible to you? Just about any force that’s conducted an annexation has paid a greater price than this - look at Russia right now. Israel aren’t Islamic, so jihadist isn’t a great characterisation, but they’re theocratic and genocidal - a distinction without a meaningful difference. Dumb and/or dishonest.
Why? It works well enough, and they haven’t bothered to invest further in it with Hamas in power and years of rocket attacks? Seems as though Netanyahu isn’t too concerned about a few hundred Israeli deaths, no? Dumb or dishonest.
A far-right wing fascist ethnostate doing warcrimes and genocidal bullshit. Dumb and dishonest.
What did these Israeli government representatives mean when they said…
Prime Minister Netanyahu
and
and
“Defence” minister Galant
Kallner…
Atbaryan…
Halevi…
In case you don’t remember your Torah, here’s a refresher on the Amalekites… I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
You’re not convincing anyone, Rudolph Jitler.
Do you know that’s a baseless conspiracy you’re pedaling?
Yeah - nah.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Plenty of credible news outlets are reporting that one. It’s not a remotely controversial statement.
Ok so you’re against Israel providing work permits to Palestinians?
From one of your articles, they’re literally complaining that Israel allows Palestinians to have jobs in Israel and saying that this practice of not totally starving out Palestine is proping up Hamas.
The article is angry at him for something you almost certainly use the opposite of as a reason to call it an apartheid state or open air prison or whatever, this is something you surely think should happen right? Palestinians should be able to work in Israel, right?
They go on to talk about how he shouldn’t be letting aid money into Gaza, etc
And do you agree with this from the article?
They argue that anything less than total military destruction of Hamas is equivalent to support, they want a boodier and more brutal war which is why they’re saying the claim in the headline - surely you don’t agree with that? Surely you don’t think that Israel shouldn’t let aid into Gaza and should attack more violently? Therefore surely you don’t agree with the claim in the title.
You’re parroting headlines without reading the article, probably because you’ve heard the claim repeated by so many people who also didn’t bother to read the article and just assumed it validated their existing view.
I’m against apartheid states that requires people of ‘undesirable’ ethnicity get work permits.
Yes - Israel has done away with sporadic attacks and launched into a more rapid genocidal approach.
Imagine defending an apartheid state committing a genocide, pointing to the apartheid to say there’s not apartheid, and rapid escalation in indiscriminate killing to say there’s not genocide.
You’ve purposely tried to redirect the topic to avoid the very clear fact that the conspiracy theory claim you made is based on them doing things that you think they should be doing.
You just spoke about the current conflict as worse than what was happening previously, the article you used up back up your conspiracy theory that Israel created Hamas is based on the argument they should have had a similar reaction sooner and that it should be more extreme.
You say genocide which I presume you count as starting before this current conflict and is based on the flimsy arguement they don’t let enough aid though, etc but you also want to use the flimsy arguement that they’re letting too much aid through which is propping up a terrorist organisation.
The reality that you don’t rely know or care about what you’re talking about is very clear, you’re throwing around buzzwords and meme talking points you haven’t even thought about and have no idea of how they relate to the wider situation. You’ve decided your team thinks Israel is bad and you’re on a quest to amplify that because you feel it will make you look like a passionate and intellectual person - unfortunately these hamfisted and empty arguments you’re making just make you look like a gullible blowhard.
The genocide that Israel is talking about pretty transparently as they indiscriminately bomb the shit out of civilians is a conspiracy - you got it, Jitler.
So your original claim? You’ve forgotten about that and your not going to respond to anything I’ve said but will continue to throw out emotive but meaningless statements?
Maybe you meant the funding Hamas piece - here’s Brig. Gen. Yitzhak Segev, Israeli military governor in Gaza in the early 1980s telling a New York Times reporter that he had helped finance the Palestinian Islamist movement as a “counterweight” to the secularists and leftists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and the Fatah party, led by Yasser Arafat.
Unsurprisingly, Arafat also referred to Hamas as
Avner Cohen, a former Israeli religious affairs official who worked in Gaza for more than two decades speaking to the WSJ…
That Israel is committing a genocide? Here’s a parade of their political leaders saying as much…
Prime Minister Netanyahu
and
and
“Defence” minister Galant
Kallner…
Atbaryan…
Halevi…
In case you don’t remember your Torah, here’s a refresher on the Amalekites… I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.