Only seven states currently bar “subminimum” pay for tipped workers like bartenders and restaurant servers, but activists see 2024 as ripe to expand the tally to as many as 20.
Why? I hope this is just the first step toward the end of tipping culture. Why should servers be held out as a special category deserving higher pay? They deserve a decent wage at least minimum, just like everyone else. If businesses need to pay them more to attract employees, then that’s the free market at work. That’s more predictable, transparent, honest toward all of the business, the employee, and the customer
Servers shouldn’t be special, obviously. The obligatory tipping system we have is an complete dumpster fire. But this is taking employees who currently make $30/hr in tips and changing their minimum wage from $2/hr to $7/hr. It’s not going to change anything. How could it? Would you give up a $30/hr job to take a $7/hr job on principle? Unless you’re independently wealthy, you couldn’t even if you wanted to.
But this is taking employees who currently make $30/hr in tips and changing their minimum wage from $2/hr to $7/hr. It’s not going to change anything.
Well at that point then the employers will need to raise how much they’re offering the employees, or the employees will look for other work. Normal capitalistic market scenario.
Bottom line is for the employees to keep making the same kind of money, but having that be done out of the employer’s pocket, and not the customer’s pocket.
And if the employer refuses to give up some of their profits to the employee to do that, and instead just tries to raise the prices of their products to offset, then they’ll find themselves going out of business right quick like, again, normal capitalistic market scenario.
Would you actually just put your head down and keep working there if that happened to you? Like…why?
Especially when Joe’s Tavern down the road is starting people off at $40/hour! It’s like the only place left in town after everyone quit and all the restaurants went under, so they got away with charging $18 a beer and $29 a burger! The owner must be making a killing…
Tipping is “not required” the way that not cheating on an SO is “not required”. No, you’re not going to get arrested for it, but that doesn’t make it okay.
This is more like someone I barely know and never agreed to be in a relationship with getting upset about me seeing other people.
But you did decide to walk into a restaurant and order, knowing full well that the employees there currently require tips to survive, yes? And you also understand that your single act of not tipping one person doesn’t change societal convention, it only hurts that individual worker?
Your analogy is fraught. Let me revise it for you:
This is more like someone I barely know and never agreed to be in a relationship with getting upset that I shit in their toilet without flushing.
I never consented to any of it. And no, I don’t know what the servers make. I only know what I made as one at a specific restaurant like 15 years ago. My uncertainty is even more pronounced when I’m on vacation in an area I’ve never worked as a server.
Can you please just let me know the actual price so I can agree to pay it or not. I just want all the information so I can make a decision. How much is the cheeseburger that says $10 on the menu? Ffs I’m hungry.
But no, it’s like you’re afraid to give an actual price because you don’t want to risk limiting the hypothetical maximum you can scam out of some sucker.
I have also worked as a server, briefly, at a corporate establishment. For each well paid server there is certainly one not making enough money.
You’re still not getting the point: you choose to eat at a restaurant. If you’re just hungry and out of time and don’t feel like tipping, you’re able to patronize somewhere where the majority of the employees wage does not come from tips. Yes, every fast food place has those rip screens now and most people are ignoring them. I’m not talking about fast food employees, I’m talking about Jan at Bob’s greasy spoon diner or Tim at Chili’s.
So, are you really arguing for using a server’s labor without compensating them for it?
I’d just like to know the price of a ‘$10’ cheeseburger so I can make an informed decision. You’re refusal to state the actual price tells me everything I need to know.
And I’m not buying any of the servers labor, I’m buying a cheeseburger. The only business relationship I have here is between me and the business owner selling cheeseburgers. The only reason I came here is that I’m hungry for a delicious cheeseburger.
Are you really arguing about this from a device produced within a system where people in sweatshops get paid far less than servers and without even any possibility of tips? You must see the irony a bit…or did you somehow tip the sweatshop kids when you bought your phone/laptop? Or did you assume the entire chain of people who produced the device are paid fairly? I mean, sure, maybe they are (as unlikely as that is). But it’s going to take a whole lot of research to determine that or even come close to determining.
More than anything, I’d really just like to know how much currency I need to exchange for one cheeseburger listed on the menu for $10… but since the menu can’t be trusted. I’m asking, please, how much is that cheeseburger?
Are you really arguing about this from a device produced within a system where people in sweatshops get paid far less than servers and without even any possibility of tips?
No, friend, we all know that the system right now is unethical. We all struggle to do what we can with what we have. The only reasonable solution to me is to consume as little as possible, repair things and buy things second hand.
And I’m not buying any of the servers labor, I’m buying a cheeseburger.
Either you are:
Buying your cheeseburger at a fast food place, where a server’s labor isn’t required. I’m not talking about this.
Using a server’s labor (taking your order, busing your plates, refilling your drinks, taking up a table in the server’s section that prevents someone else from being seated who may require more work). Then, if you choose not to tip, you’re deciding the server makes “enough” for their efforts. Best case scenerio, you are freeloading off other patron’s tips.
I am currently a tipped employee (not in the restaurant industry. I work at a casino. Edit: My situation is totally different, my job is dumb and I’m part of a tip pool.). I’ll say it here: The system is bad and tipping shouldn’t exist. Ugly people and racial minorities make less money from tips than traditionally attractive, neurotypical white people. It’s a bad system, full stop. This doesn’t mean you should just decide to not tip if you go to a restaurant that employees servers for 2.13 + tips. The most ethical choice is to not patronize that restaurant. If you do anyway (as we all do, living is pain), you should tip. Not tipping isn’t going to change anything. It’s just make life worse temporarily for that server, who might be agonizing what they did to piss you off.
Unfortunately that’s not the reality in full service restaurants in the US, where I live. Servers are reliant on tips to live. The practice is pervasive. I don’t know of a single non-tipped full service restaurant in my city.
Unfortunately that’s not the reality in full service restaurants in the US
As someone who lives in the US and was actually at a full service restaurant just last night, I can’t agree, just depends on the place/region.
Also, if you are basing your existence on just the goodwill of others, that’s not a smart or healthy way to live.
Really get tired of repeating the same points over and over again, so I’ll just leave it as “everyone is the captain of their own ship”, metaphorically speaking.
It’s okay to not to tip for normal service.
Tipping is supposed to be done for extraordinary service, above the call of what the employee is normally required to do for the customer.
If the employee is not earning enough then that’s a matter for between the employer and the employee to resolve, not the customer.
From all I’ve heard, wait staff actually like tipping because, if you’re good, you can make a decent amount of money that way.
I personally would love to get rid of the tipping culture in the US, as I think we’ve passed a point where tips are just being asked for in far too many places, but the idea that tipping is bad for waitstaff is something I think they might, on a whole, disagree with.
And where are you in the US where tipping at a full service restaurant is not customary?
Reminder that a “living wage”, and what most servers make, is at least 3x minimum wage, so tipping is still going to be required.
Why? I hope this is just the first step toward the end of tipping culture. Why should servers be held out as a special category deserving higher pay? They deserve a decent wage at least minimum, just like everyone else. If businesses need to pay them more to attract employees, then that’s the free market at work. That’s more predictable, transparent, honest toward all of the business, the employee, and the customer
Servers shouldn’t be special, obviously. The obligatory tipping system we have is an complete dumpster fire. But this is taking employees who currently make $30/hr in tips and changing their minimum wage from $2/hr to $7/hr. It’s not going to change anything. How could it? Would you give up a $30/hr job to take a $7/hr job on principle? Unless you’re independently wealthy, you couldn’t even if you wanted to.
Well at that point then the employers will need to raise how much they’re offering the employees, or the employees will look for other work. Normal capitalistic market scenario.
Bottom line is for the employees to keep making the same kind of money, but having that be done out of the employer’s pocket, and not the customer’s pocket.
And if the employer refuses to give up some of their profits to the employee to do that, and instead just tries to raise the prices of their products to offset, then they’ll find themselves going out of business right quick like, again, normal capitalistic market scenario.
Would you actually just put your head down and keep working there if that happened to you? Like…why?
Especially when Joe’s Tavern down the road is starting people off at $40/hour! It’s like the only place left in town after everyone quit and all the restaurants went under, so they got away with charging $18 a beer and $29 a burger! The owner must be making a killing…
Tipping is, by definition, not required.
‘They need you to do it’ versus ‘you need to do it.’
Stupid word game.
Tipping is “not required” the way that not cheating on an SO is “not required”. No, you’re not going to get arrested for it, but that doesn’t make it okay.
This is more like someone I barely know and never agreed to be in a relationship with getting upset about me seeing other people.
If you agree to monogamy, it’s cheating and unethical for sure. If you don’t agree to monogamy, cheating isn’t even possible lol.
So if I agree to pay the listed price of an item and then I pay for it in full…
But you did decide to walk into a restaurant and order, knowing full well that the employees there currently require tips to survive, yes? And you also understand that your single act of not tipping one person doesn’t change societal convention, it only hurts that individual worker?
Your analogy is fraught. Let me revise it for you:
I never consented to any of it. And no, I don’t know what the servers make. I only know what I made as one at a specific restaurant like 15 years ago. My uncertainty is even more pronounced when I’m on vacation in an area I’ve never worked as a server.
Can you please just let me know the actual price so I can agree to pay it or not. I just want all the information so I can make a decision. How much is the cheeseburger that says $10 on the menu? Ffs I’m hungry.
But no, it’s like you’re afraid to give an actual price because you don’t want to risk limiting the hypothetical maximum you can scam out of some sucker.
I have also worked as a server, briefly, at a corporate establishment. For each well paid server there is certainly one not making enough money.
You’re still not getting the point: you choose to eat at a restaurant. If you’re just hungry and out of time and don’t feel like tipping, you’re able to patronize somewhere where the majority of the employees wage does not come from tips. Yes, every fast food place has those rip screens now and most people are ignoring them. I’m not talking about fast food employees, I’m talking about Jan at Bob’s greasy spoon diner or Tim at Chili’s.
So, are you really arguing for using a server’s labor without compensating them for it?
I’d just like to know the price of a ‘$10’ cheeseburger so I can make an informed decision. You’re refusal to state the actual price tells me everything I need to know.
And I’m not buying any of the servers labor, I’m buying a cheeseburger. The only business relationship I have here is between me and the business owner selling cheeseburgers. The only reason I came here is that I’m hungry for a delicious cheeseburger.
Are you really arguing about this from a device produced within a system where people in sweatshops get paid far less than servers and without even any possibility of tips? You must see the irony a bit…or did you somehow tip the sweatshop kids when you bought your phone/laptop? Or did you assume the entire chain of people who produced the device are paid fairly? I mean, sure, maybe they are (as unlikely as that is). But it’s going to take a whole lot of research to determine that or even come close to determining.
More than anything, I’d really just like to know how much currency I need to exchange for one cheeseburger listed on the menu for $10… but since the menu can’t be trusted. I’m asking, please, how much is that cheeseburger?
No, friend, we all know that the system right now is unethical. We all struggle to do what we can with what we have. The only reasonable solution to me is to consume as little as possible, repair things and buy things second hand.
Either you are:
Buying your cheeseburger at a fast food place, where a server’s labor isn’t required. I’m not talking about this.
Using a server’s labor (taking your order, busing your plates, refilling your drinks, taking up a table in the server’s section that prevents someone else from being seated who may require more work). Then, if you choose not to tip, you’re deciding the server makes “enough” for their efforts. Best case scenerio, you are freeloading off other patron’s tips.
I am currently a tipped employee (not in the restaurant industry. I work at a casino. Edit: My situation is totally different, my job is dumb and I’m part of a tip pool.). I’ll say it here: The system is bad and tipping shouldn’t exist. Ugly people and racial minorities make less money from tips than traditionally attractive, neurotypical white people. It’s a bad system, full stop. This doesn’t mean you should just decide to not tip if you go to a restaurant that employees servers for 2.13 + tips. The most ethical choice is to not patronize that restaurant. If you do anyway (as we all do, living is pain), you should tip. Not tipping isn’t going to change anything. It’s just make life worse temporarily for that server, who might be agonizing what they did to piss you off.
It’s okay to not to tip for normal service.
Tipping is supposed to be done for extraordinary service, above the call of what the employee is normally required to do for the customer.
If the employee is not earning enough then that’s a matter for between the employer and the employee to resolve, not the customer.
Unfortunately that’s not the reality in full service restaurants in the US, where I live. Servers are reliant on tips to live. The practice is pervasive. I don’t know of a single non-tipped full service restaurant in my city.
As someone who lives in the US and was actually at a full service restaurant just last night, I can’t agree, just depends on the place/region.
Also, if you are basing your existence on just the goodwill of others, that’s not a smart or healthy way to live.
Really get tired of repeating the same points over and over again, so I’ll just leave it as “everyone is the captain of their own ship”, metaphorically speaking.
From all I’ve heard, wait staff actually like tipping because, if you’re good, you can make a decent amount of money that way.
I personally would love to get rid of the tipping culture in the US, as I think we’ve passed a point where tips are just being asked for in far too many places, but the idea that tipping is bad for waitstaff is something I think they might, on a whole, disagree with.
And where are you in the US where tipping at a full service restaurant is not customary?
Nah, the shift has finally begun. It’s gonna happen
I hope so. I hope something like this makes it to a ballot in my state.
It doesn’t require any ballot lol. People are just tipping less and less over time and the practice is dying.
While true, legislation can wreck this predatory shit overnight as well.
Yup, servers often times make much more than other “minimum wage” jobs.