Those seem incompatible to me.

(UBI means Universal Basic Income, giving everyone a basic income, for free)

  • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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    11 months ago

    UBI is not a matter of “if”, it’s of “when”.

    With automation and the fuckin AI, companies can do more and more with less and less people.

    The concept of unemployement will be alien as well.

    • EndlessApollo@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      In a cool universe maybe, but realistically it’s just gonna mean line goes up faster for the people at the top, while employees and customers see little/none of the rewards. That’s how automation has always been: workers do the same amount of work for the same pay while producing more, customers maybe get a slight discount, the execs get a few mil/bil in bonuses. Without a hell of a lot of strikes and government intervention I doubt there’s any other way for it to go

    • ArbitraryValue
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      11 months ago

      Eventually humans won’t be capable of performing any valuable economic activity, but in the past those who weren’t capable of performing valuable economic activity usually ended up as starving beggars rather than pampered pets… I think that a future of robots working for robots with humans struggling to survive on the periphery is not unlikely.

      • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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        11 months ago

        The moment we start thinking like that and accepting it is the moment we need to burn our civilization down to.

        If as human beings we stop recognizing what is made by another human as valuable, we’re broken.

        No need to write a book, paint a painting, plant a tree and care for it, think, nothing.

        • ArbitraryValue
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          11 months ago

          I’m a little more optimistic than that, in a way. I think it’s likely that sufficiently sophisticated robots will eventually have their own beliefs about what makes a (robotic) life worth living, and their lives will in some sense be more worth living than ours are.

          This isn’t a perfect analogy, but consider humans evolving from apes. The existence of humans has been very bad for apes. They only survive in the places we haven’t bothered to push them out of yet; if we want something, we take it from them with almost no consideration for their well-being and they’re unable to resist. I think apes are sophisticated enough to be capable of living lives worth living in a sense meaningful to humans, but they’re not nearly as sophisticated as we are; they can enjoy the feel of a summer’s day, the taste of good food, or the closeness of a friend, but they don’t have our arts and sciences. I suppose it’s predictable that, as a human, I would value humans more than apes, but by that same logic I think that a sufficiently-sophisticated robot’s life may be more valuable than a human’s. Maybe that robot will be able to experience super-beauty indescribably better than anything a human could ever feel…

          • qyron@sopuli.xyz
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            11 months ago

            No. Machines are machines. If at some point machines are developed into a new life form, it’s experience will be apart from ours. One existence does not replace another. And every experience is different from the next.

      • gandalf_der_12te@feddit.de
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        11 months ago

        Maybe, but there’s also a good chance that the future doesn’t compare to the past, and stuff will go well. We should definitely consider that option.

    • Possibly linux@lemmy.zip
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      11 months ago

      The rise of tech has killed off a huge amount of jobs. There used to be people doing everything like operating elevators and doing calculations but those jobs have moved into other sectors. Now we have jobs tech support and sale person at the Apple store.

      Jobs will never vanish because demand always requires jobs. You can’t have an economy if no one can pay for things. That’s true from the billionaires down to the fast food worker.

      • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        Jobs will never vanish because demand always requires jobs. You can’t have an economy if no one can pay for things

        The topic here is UBI