Oh fuck off mate. Only Russia is to blame for the Russo-Ukrainian war.
Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around.
This is the equivalent of a child pointing at a sibling and saying “they made me do it”
Thanks you for saying what a lot of others think. I would not engage the tankie any further.
The only child here is the one who’s ignoring all history that led up to the conflict and pretending the west had no role to play.
It’s incredible how you constantly try remove any agency the people of Ukraine have. I was there for Euromaidan. I know exactly what we’ve been fighting for.
On the flip side to play devil’s advocate for a moment, even if we were to take this at face value that makes the actions of Russia toddler level bullshit. “Oh noes the evil west uwu, I have to murder tens of thousands of people now. Look what they made me do, uwu”…
Путин, пошёл на хуй
Nah, I’m not taking any agency from you for the things you did as reported by CNN back in 2014 https://twitter.com/paulius60/status/1611148483859255296
The real question is why you would take the agency away from people you were doing this to.
I am those people…
The people doing that to us were the Russians.
Also as a reminder, 75% of us voted for Zelensky. The further east you went the higher the percentage. Go fly a kite somewhere else сука
Even CNN reported openly who was shelling Donbas, but you keep on going there. Now, trolls like you are all over social media cheering for other people to keep on dying. By the way, remind me again what platform Zelensky ran on again?
Getting rid of the Russian corruption and getting closer to the EU.
Seems like you’re omitting something pretty important there, but I’ve stopped expecting any sort of intellectual honesty a long time ago.
You’re using an incredibly naive, reductive, and highly cropped version of history if you really think that. Or, you’re arguing in bad faith. Tankies often try to pull the latter, but it’s pretty easy to spot.
I’m literally the opposite by focusing on the history that led up to the conflict and the role that west played in creating the conditions for it. The incredibly naive, reductive, and highly cropped version of history is the claim that Russia just decided to invade Ukraine out of the blue and nothing could’ve been done to avoid that. The fact that you’re a grown ass adult using the word tankie says everything I need to know about you though.
You’re scoping the relevant historical interval to begin at 1917. I’m scoping the relevant historical interval to begin at 482. You’re taking a highly targeted and very obviously biased view of the situation.
You’re scoping the historical interval before anything resembling Ukraine existed, and that has zero relation to the current geopolitical conflict between US and Russia where Ukraine is being used as a proxy. Somehow, you think that’s a coherent point you’ve made.
😂
Russians invaded sovereign territory. That’s all you need to know about this war.
If you’re five years old then sure.
Bu but it’s sovereign!
You can make plenty of arguments about why the actions of Russia are wrong, but using the phrase sovereign territory like it’s the king’s divine right aint one.
why
Because historical context matters, and things don’t just happen in isolation. Highly recommend watching this lecture from 2016 to get a bit of perspective on the subject https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4
How about you explain it since you’re so smart
A link is not a proof of work, even a chatbot answer would’ve been better than that.
If you can’t even be arsed to watch an hour long lecture on a complex subject perhaps you shouldn’t be debating it.
If you can’t even be asked to summarise an erratic thought chain perhaps you shouldn’t be classist about it.
There’s nothing erratic about what I said. The article linked in the submission, which you obviously didn’t read either, summarizes precisely what happened. Maybe take a moment away from trolling to actually engage with the subject you’re attempting to debate here.
The author’s whining tone is difficult to get through, but he fails to identify why Ukraine being a free democracy was such a threat to Russia that invasion and war crimes are justified. Ukraine is not Russia and they don’t want to be.
Whatcha talking about Willis, Ukraine a free democracy? https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/04/welcome-to-the-most-corrupt-nation-in-europe-ukraine
That’s why one of the biggest requirements they have to pass to join the EU is to reign in that massive corruption. It’s a known problem being actively rooted out and punished, and if joining the EU is popular enough I think we’ll see a cultural shift away from the Russian corrupt kleptocracy mindset into western European democracy and liberalism
Youkeepp on believing that. It’s a country ruled by the oligarchs and it’s working exactly the way oligarchs want it to.
You mean like Russia? And I’m unsure how belief is required in Ukrainians deciding their own destiny.
Yeah, Russia isn’t any better than Ukraine. Meanwhile, as discussed here, you need to learn a bit about the demographics in Ukraine before talking about Ukrainian destiny.
What about the 2019 election? The most recent one before the war I think, right?
I address that in the thread if you bother reading it. Zelensky ran on the platform of normalizing relations with Russia and implementing Minsk.
