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But car buyers’ preferences have also shifted dramatically to larger trucks and SUVs in the past 10 years or so, and even more towards high-tech and comfort amenities in the form of cameras, sensors, radars and large infotainment screens," he said.
You can’t buy a smaller truck because the manufacturers lobbied that large trucks are exempt from stricter emissions and thus they don’t have to engineer a smaller, more efficient truck.
Ford’s only car on offer is the Mustang, everything else is some kind of compact SUV, full size SUV, or truck. Other automakers are similar (some offer more sedans and hatches still). Guess I won’t be buying a Ford when I need a new car.
I really liked my focus. And when I went to buy a new one they tried to sell me a hideous SUV. I’m not bringing any kids to soccer, I don’t want your gas guzzler. I bought a Subaru because they still make cars. Tall vehicles suck ass to drive and I wish more people realized it.
Did they drop the Focus and Fiesta?
Yea, ‘22 or ‘23 was the last year for those. Mustang is all that’s left and its time is limited imo.
I kind of doubt that. Mustangs exist in part to bring buyers into the dealers. They actually buy a new Edge or Explorer, because there’s now a link in the buyer’s mind between Mustang performance and Edge performance. Same with Corvettes and Chevrolet dealers, for example. Halo cars.
I’ll be keeping my Fusion hybrid for a decade at least. Maybe it’ll become a collector’s item xD
The Mustang Mach E is also an SUV. The writing is on the wall.
Right? The mid size truck is now the size of a full size from 15 years ago.
Had an 84 Toyota pickup, can confirm that thing would be classified as a compact car nowadays. Funny thing, it had a longer bed than many current full size truck.
I have this weird little vehicle from the 1980’s. I can best describe it as a Japanese Jeep. It wasn’t ever a “big” vehicle, but seeing it next to a modern truck is jarring.
The best part is, I know from direct repeated personal experience that the 60 horsepower 4wd can go more places than a typical 4wd truck.
EDIT: Also, the truck in this picture is a 2004-2008, a 2023 is even bigger…
That’s super cute
That thing is cool AF.
And you can’t buy a new car without those high tech things. And also this shit isn’t “high tech” anymore. Large screens are dirt cheap. Aftermarket rear view cameras are going out to eat money. Idk about radar and sensors but as technology matures and becomes cheap it finds its way into every car. A budget car should be nicer now than 20 years ago because nice things have been around longer.
And they are. $30k today is about $18k 20 years ago. You get a ton of safety features and whatnot in even base model cars these days. A base 2004 Camry was ~$18k new, and a base Camry today is ~$30k. Prices really haven’t changed much relative to inflation.
What about relative to wages?
- 2003: $27,000 - inflation adjusted to 2023: $43,928.51
- 2023: $50,000
- 2003: $42,381.00 - inflation adjusted to 2023: $68,953.12
- 2023: $74,202
So the average American (i.e. 50% earned more, 50% earned less) earned more in 2023 than in 2003, even accounting for inflation. There are a ton of ways to calculate “relative to wages” (i.e. are we talking minimum wage, median, average?), but it looks like people are better off today than 20 years ago, and prices for cars are about the same.
Median seems a much better metric than average.
The census.gov data for 2021 has median individual income at about $35k - much smaller than your sources for 23.
Did it really increase nearly 50% in 2 years?
I’m not sure where that data is coming from, here’s what I found (source). This data set in particular (Excel file) shows the following:
That’s for 2021 and 2022, and the median seems to be $49k in 2021 and $48k in 2022. $50k in 2023 seems plausible.
Some of that is due the chicken tax (post WW2 tax on imported trucks passed in retaliation to a tax on chickens…) Thankfully “small” trucks are having a resurgence. The Ford Maverick has sold extremely well and rumors are other brands are planing to re-enter the small truck market.
I just wish they made a body on frame small truck.
The kicker is that that engineering has already been done because small trucks exist in other countries. Several Japanese automakers sell kei trucks in their domestic market. They could sell them in the US with minimal modification.
Need to add:
Crash certified bumpers to 5mph Engineered crumple zones Re-enforced A and B pillars Re-enforced doors Air bags
And I’m quite sure I’ve forgotten more than one other thing they would need to add Kei style trucks to make them roadworthy in many states. And once you make those upgrades, plus the cost of all the federal testing that would be needed, how much do you think one of those little trucks would cost?
There is also the trifle that they’d need to be redesigned to place the driver controls on the left. And then of course nobody would buy them even if they were exempt from most of that, because they were made to do 25km/h through Japanese villages and are not well suited for American freeway use.
Are the smaller trucks like the Maverick not available in your area? Or do you mean something like a Kei truck maybe
A 2024 Maverick has a wheelbase of 120" and curb weight of 3600 pounds. In 1991, Ford’s compact pickup, the Ranger, had a wheelbase of just 108" and curb weight of 2800 pounds. “Small” trucks have gained a foot and half a ton. The Ranger itself is now a 5000 pound behemoth that outweighs the 1990 F-150 by 1000 pounds.
To be fair, there’s a lot more safety equipment in cars now than there was in 91
Hell, a civic weighs 3000lb.
The Hyundai Santa Cruz and Ford Maverick would like a word with you.
Have you tried to buy a Maverick?
No, I went with the Santa Cruz instead.
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Section 179 allows you to deduct the entire purchase of a vehicle over 6000 lbs gvw if it’s used for at least 50% business use. Farmers are notorious for not paying taxes. I guarantee they use untaxed, dyed diesel in their truck that they drive on roads too.
How is that relevant? Farmers are such a small percentage of the population (3.4M, so 1-2% of America) that they’re not moving the needle much at all. So even if they’re all cheating (highly unlikely) all the time, that’s still not going to change much of anything for the average person.
It’s still a problem, but it has nothing to do with current car prices, gas/diesel taxes, or anything that would impact the average person.
Hopefully this will drive car makers to make simpler and more affordable cars.
Or here’s a crazy idea… Public transportation and pedestrian infrastructure could be vastly improved so that we don’t have to depend on cars as much…
Most American companies have ceased production of small cars in favor of giant trucks and SUVs.
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That which is unsustainable will tend not to be sustained.
$80,000 pickups exist because of farmers’ welfare checks.
There is no real reason for vehicles to cost that much.
I’m confused. Are farmers the ones buying oversized trucks just to drop of the kids and shop at Walmart.
No, farmers are buying them to do work. His point is that they couldn’t afford them if there weren’t huge subsidies for farmers. If those subsidies didn’t exist, farmers would still need pickups, so the manufacturers would almost have to come up with cheaper models, or they’d lose sales to companies that do.
I know it’s edgy and popular to blame farmers for a large number of things. But there aren’t enough farmers to buy that many pickup trucks to sustain the sheer number of of them produced.
Look inward young urbane urbanite.
The farmers I knew ran their trucks for 20+ years.
I doubt they are a particularly large influence in the market.
I wasn’t blaming farmers for anything. I was holding them up as an example of someone that legitimately likely needs a pickup. And if tax breaks are available to them, why shouldn’t they take advantage of them? You can argue the subsidies shouldn’t be there, and perhaps they shouldn’t, but they are, and I don’t blame people for taking advantage of them.
Similar situation: Education has gotten so expensive, possibly because student loans are so readily available. If there were no loans available, few people could afford college, so it seems very likely the colleges would find ways to make it less expensive…or a bunch would go out of business.
I am neither young nor an urbanite.
Exactly. Farmers buy the reasonable trucks, nimbys buy the ridiculous trucks. That’s how it works in my area at least, once I leave suburbia, I see the reasonable trucks owned by people who actually use them as trucks.
A farmer wouldn’t buy an $80k CAD light-duty truck, especially when they start out at $50k CAD, that’s a waste of their money. Any farmer that did that wouldn’t be a farmer for long.
If a truck cost $80k, I can assure you it would be a heavy-duty diesel flatbed, cargo trailer hauler, or even a dump truck with roll-down windows, no AC, no creature comforts and likely even no radio much less an infotainment system.
Farmers aren’t morons unless they want to go bankrupt. They get that which can best allow them to do their job, not fancy pavement princesses.
Source: orchardist. None of my vehicles are newer than two decades old. Nor would I ever buy a modern consumer monstrosity to do the work.
Over 90% of the pavement princesses I see in the $80-150k CAD range are driven by people who don’t own more than a quarter acre of land in totality. A fair number don’t even own land at all (renters), and lease what they drive. Not a pot to piss in, but they just have to have the biggest penis-extender on the road.
A Ford King Ranch base model is $76k.
Go to the USDA and pick a farming state and you can see how many farmers in how many counties are getting between $100k to millions TO NOT FARM! (It’s most of them)
The local Ford and Chevy dealers will have the trucks lined up when the checks come out.
I can’t phantom spending more than $25k on a new car (for myself, I don’t need a family vehicle). I’m in the market for a used car around $15k and even that seems steep. With this article saying average prices are around $40k and 82% of Americans make under $100k, I have to assume people are seriously struggling to afford anything if much of it is going towards car expenses. And that’s just for a car, not to mention housing, food, etc.
Edit: oh…
Manufacturers cite disappointing sales results as primary reasons for discontinuing smaller, more affordable vehicles from their lineup," Yoon explained.
“But car buyers’ preferences have also shifted dramatically to larger trucks and SUVs in the past 10 years or so, and even more towards high-tech and comfort amenities in the form of cameras, sensors, radars and large infotainment screens,” he said.
Yeah, I’d be a-okay with an fm radio and roll down windows in a compact hatchback, thanks. You people with your fancy cars. It’s all going to be trash with the flick of a firmware update.
Yeah, I’d be a-okay with an fm radio and roll down windows in a compact hatchback, thanks. You people with your fancy cars. It’s all going to be trash with the flick of a firmware update.
Nobody makes fun of my wife’s little econobox anymore. 1.2 liter engine, 5 speed, and a radio.
I’ve been seriously considering a 1970’s VW Beetle. My main hesitation / red flag, of all the things that could be a concern with such an old car, is lack of power steering and my need to parallel park in the city.
Speaking as someone who has suffered an original air cooled Beetle, they’re cool but I wouldn’t try to daily it. The lack of power steering would be far, far down your list of issues you will run into.
But for paralell parking a beetle specifically it can be a challenge, because reverse doesn’t work like you expect. You have to push the gear lever down, like straight down toward the ground, and hold it, to put it in reverse. So you have to steer with one hand and hold the shifter with the other.
Good to know about reverse. Thanks.
Wouldn’t be a “daily” per se but an occasional weekend and holiday car. Like, easily under 5k miles a year.
Oh, perfect for that.
Yup, I buy exclusively used cars. If manufacturers made simple, cheap, reliable cars, I’d consider buying new. But all the new stuff has so many electronics in it that longer term maintenance is a pain.
I’d love an EV with 150-200 mile range and almost no tech. I don’t even need fast charging, as long as I can recharge overnight. I don’t need driving assist (I don’t work that far away), fancy infotainment, just a radio and an audio jack for my phone. I just want to get to work and back as cheaply as possible, that’s it.
This is like the optimal use case for an electric car too. Everyone around me keeps complaining about not being able to go on road trips due to battery while never actually going on any, also bitching about the gas, and having three different vehicles of different sizes. Like come on it’s not that fucking hard. Ev for work and groceries, your shitty ass smog camper for road trips you never go on. But even if I spell it out simple they are all Facebook conspiracy loonies and/or mentally challenged trumpster fires and won’t stop spewing the same nonsense
Yup. I already have two cars, a larger car for family trips (minivan), and a commuter (hybrid). The family car isn’t likely to be an EV anytime soon, but the commuter could, but I’m not paying $50k for something that’s way overkill, I just need you get to work and back.
The Chevy Bolt and Leaf are close, and I’ll probably get one eventually, but they’re just a little too expensive for me to replace my currently working car. I want something with an inexpensive battery so I can replace it in 5-10 years without going broke.
I was planning on converting the 83 Honda or the scirocco myself but right around when I had saved up enough money the dollar tanked compared to USD and a lot of stuff would come from there if I didn’t order by the seacan amount. Now I can barely afford anything let alone the batteries or any of the work on the car really.
That’s not just in the US. I drive a car I can’t afford either, but it’s a company car so I don’t have to worry about it. It’s still kinda wild to me that asking for a few € raise is seen as impossible but giving me a 50K car isn’t a problem (I know, I know, tax breaks etc).
Let’s assume you get taxed at 50% (very high estimate) and the car lasts 10 years (or they get half back after 5 years), that’s about €2.5k/year if you got it in cash instead of a car. Or they could get a €30k car and give you €1k/year more (not counting insurance, gas, maintenance, etc).
I personally would never spend €50k on a car even if I could afford it, I’m more of the €15k used and keep until it hits 300k km kind of person. My current cars have 230k and 290k km respectively. I’d much rather have the cash than a company car; even after the tax hit, I’ll probably still come out ahead, and I wouldn’t need to worry about what happens if I switch jobs.
I’ll stick to walking, transit, micromobility, and motorcycling for now.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The pandemic’s disruption of manufacturing supply chains, as well as outsized consumer demand in 2021, really put a strain on vehicle inventory and drove prices up significantly, said Yoon.
“Supply chain disruptions also forced manufacturers to prioritize more profitable, higher-trim vehicles in their lineups, which meant the inventory available to purchase also carried a higher sticker price.”
“Macroeconomic factors like inflation and higher interest rates are also reducing vehicle demand, but not enough to drastically drop car prices in the foreseeable future.”
But there are other reasons besides pandemic-related disruptions that there seem to be no more affordable cars in the U.S.—including that automakers are increasingly focusing on the production of expensive SUVs and trucks while dropping smaller, cheaper vehicles that would cost $20,000 or less.
“Manufacturers cite disappointing sales results as primary reasons for discontinuing smaller, more affordable vehicles from their lineup,” Yoon explained.
“But car buyers’ preferences have also shifted dramatically to larger trucks and SUVs in the past 10 years or so, and even more towards high-tech and comfort amenities in the form of cameras, sensors, radars and large infotainment screens,” he said.
The original article contains 758 words, the summary contains 186 words. Saved 75%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Alternative perspective:
Just 10 percent of new car listings are currently priced below $30,000, according to CoPilot
10% of new cars are still below $30k despite inflation. $30k today would be ~$18k 20 years ago.
Original MSRP on the 2004 Camry was ~$18k. The 2024 Camry is ~$25k (fair market value ~$29k), so at least the Camry has gotten cheaper or shayed the and relative to inflation. Cars have gotten much better in the meantime as well.
Since 2020, new car prices have risen by 30 percent
That’s a bit unfair though. There was a massive supply shortage in 2020 as car manufacturers reduced production fearing an economic downtown, then a difficulty increasing production due to COVID-related supply line disruption. Since then, EVs have gotten really popular, and their prices have skyrocketed.
So they have picked the most extreme possible start and failed to point out changes in purchasing preferences (i.e. more are buying from the more expensive end of the spectrum).
They do get into this later though.
In November 2019, the average transaction price for a new vehicle was $38,500. In November of 2023, that figure jumped to $47,939.
So Americans prefer to buy more expensive cars. Cheaper cars do exist as pointed out in the article, but there’s apparently not as much demand for them.
Americans needed an annual income of at least $100,000 to afford a car
I’m guessing this is based on the average selling price of a car. Let’s also assume loan rates are 5-6%, they’ll put $0 down, and yearly income is assuming 10% goes to the car payment. I’ll use this calculator for loan costs using data for my state (~9% sales tax, $2500 fees). I’ll estimate other costs below.
Let’s look at some options (only going with “fullsize” sedans and a crossover):
- Toyota Camry - fair value ~$29k - $547.27-560.65/month, income range $65k-67k
- Kia Forte - fair value ~$22.5k - $424.60-434.99/month, income range ~$52k
- Subaru Crosstrek - fair value ~$28k - not bothering to calculate, probably $60-65k
Assuming 30mpg, 14k miles per year, and $3.09/gal gas (average taken from here), we get $1440/year in gas, or $14.4k in additional income. There are cheaper cars and more efficient cars, this is just a sample of popular cars.
So to afford gas and a car payment on a new car on 10% of your income, you’d need $66.5k-80k, not $100k. After the first 5 years, that decreases quite a lot, and your cost for maintenance is probably way less than your old car payment.
I’m not factoring in insurance prices, which depend heavily on region, age, driving record, etc.
That said, I personally have never and probably will never buy new, I prefer to find a good deal on a used car and keep it to 200k+ miles. I think many people at the lower end of the income spectrum do the same, so basing a budget around a car payment is really silly. So the actual minimum is probably more like $40-50k, if you buy a high quality used car, get liability insurance, and do the easier repairs yourself.
including that automakers are increasingly focusing on the production of expensive SUVs and trucks while dropping smaller, cheaper vehicles that would cost $20,000 or less.
This is due to customer demand, as well as stupid regulations that make SUVs and trucks cheaper for auto makers to make. If we fix the laws to not treat consumer trucks and SUVs differently, we’ll see prices for those cars increase and demand for smaller cars increase as well.
This all started with light trucks getting lower efficiency standards than cars, and SUVs being classified as light trucks, which means SUVs have lower R&D costs vs sedans due to not needing to worry about efficiency as much. So SUVs can be cheaper than they would be if they were regulated as cars.
Regardless, this article is quite poor imo.
So the average transaction price for a new vehicle is just shy of $48000. It blows my mind that people are buying such expensive vehicles and then complaining they can’t afford them. We bought a new vehicle 3 months ago and its price is only half that amount. Yet it comfortably seats two adults and two kids.
There are plenty of vehicles for sale under $30k. But the people are choosing not to buy them. 🤷♂️
🤭 Fuck cars anyway!
Yes, fuck cars, but first, fuck America (and other countries) for not building infrastructure to be car independent.
Exactly! That culture of cars do a lot of damage.
ok maybe I don’t exactly understand but how would a car independent America be like since it’s so huge?
You’d need huge investment in high speed rail. Tokyo to Osaka is about the same distance as Chicago to Des Moines Iowa. 3hr train vs 5 hr car ride. We could do it… But the density of travel between those locations would make a project like that a very poor investment, so the government would have to pay the bill knowing it would be at a loss.
Then you build this rail.
That’s the easy part.
Now I have to convince Des Moines to invest in better bus systems or trolleys to get people around in the city and the outlying residential areas. This is where these projects fall flat. Getting local municipalities to invest in public transit. Hundred people get off in Des Moines and unless someone is there waiting for them or they have their bike or left their car there. They’re stranded.
Its not sexy. It won’t get you re elected. It won’t be done in your term.
I don’t think high speed rail is the issue here. We have a good network of airports, so I can get between major cities pretty easily. High speed rail is a good idea since it’ll cut down on emissions and costs longer term, but it’s not going to end car dependency.
What the US needs is a ground up commitment to improving transit. There are a lot of low cost ways to drive people toward transit, which means more political will to improve what we have. For example:
- restrict roads that go through city centers - cars should be forced to go around on highways
- switch intersections to be pedestrian-first - e.g. Dutch raised intersections
- make dedicated bus lanes, and use techniques to encourage cars to use other routes
There are a ton of projects I’d love my region to do, but they’re of little value if people don’t use them. We need city planners to make an active effort to push cars out of the city.
Japan’s entire system is privatized no?
Moving walkways from sea to shining sea
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Buy an electric
bikemotorcycle.
Good
