• OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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    10 months ago

    Easy, I use political science terms and traditional analysis

    I literally use “liberal” to mean liberal capitalist because I read political economics books. When you say “political science” and “traditional analysis” you are referring to something that is a lot less universal than you think it is.

    Also like how do you talk about liberalism and neoliberalism in a non confusing way while also claiming liberalism is left? You didn’t answer my question you just took a swipe.

    The important thing to remember is that liberal vs. conservative is an ideological midpoint for the discourse being discussed and/or measured

    Except this is a very narrow overton window(more like an arrow slit) and if you limit your discussion to it you miss a lot of context and analysis.

    Which is good, because the overall trend throughout history is leftward and a relative system is able to both capture that as well as provide descriptive value for a given measurement period.

    This is kinda unfalsifiable

    • Kecessa
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      10 months ago

      Also like how do you talk about liberalism and neoliberalism in a non confusing way while also claiming liberalism is left?

      You make it clear with your audience that you’re talking about the “liberal” in the economic sense and not “liberal” in the philosophical sense. From a philosophical perspective is the difference between being pro changes (liberal) vs being against changes (conservative), and as the person previously mentioned, in this sense you could say there are conservative communists (want to follow Marx’s philosophy to the letter) and liberal communists (believe in the basic principles but feel some things need to be adjusted), just like there are liberal conservatives (believe in small/efficient State but individual freedoms) and conservative conservatives (social conservatives).

      • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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        10 months ago

        You make it clear with your audience that you’re talking about the “liberal” in the economic sense and not “liberal” in the philosophical sense.

        Liberalism as a philosophy is connected to the economic structure? Are you referring to a different philosophy and calling it liberal?

        From a philosophical perspective is the difference between being pro changes (liberal) vs being against changes (conservative)

        Okay, yes, you are. Liberalism is literally the status quo.

        in this sense you could say there are conservative communists (want to follow Marx’s philosophy to the letter) and liberal communists (believe in the basic principles but feel some things need to be adjusted)

        You literally can’t be a marxist and take Marx as dogma. Marxism is a process based ideology.

          • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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            10 months ago

            The issue is that your definition is “dumbed down” to the point that it loses utility when discussing politics and conceals cultural hegemony.

            • Kecessa
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              10 months ago

              No it doesn’t because, you just have to specify what you mean because the word has multiple definitions and in OP’s example it’s the definition I’ve provided that’s being used and you should have known because of the context (liberalism as opposed to conservatism).

              • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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                10 months ago

                Of course the word has multiple definitions, that definition just obscures the shit out of everything and isn’t very useful. It literally obscures that conservatives are also liberals (in the more meaningful sense) and obscures the difference between left and liberal.

                • Kecessa
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                  10 months ago

                  It literally obscures that conservatives are also liberals (in the more meaningful sense) and obscures the difference between left and liberal.

                  Only if you use another definition of the word.

                  • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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                    10 months ago

                    How do you talk about liberal hegemony (marxist definition) while using the nonsense definition in a non-bulky way?