What’s fun is that I regularly ask, “who should I vote for to prevent Trump from being president?” I rarely get an answer, but I do get told I support genocide. It’s extra-fun when I tell them I want to stop Trump to stop people like my queer daughter from being the victims of a genocide. That often makes them double down on telling me how much I want there to be a genocide.
I’ve even been told I should care more about people on the other side of the world than my own daughter’s life.
I am extremely sympathetic to the Palestinian cause and absolutely condemn Israel’s genocide… but at the expense of my own child’s life? Fuck no.
Anything to stop Trump and Republicans from putting queer people in “conversion” camps where they’re tortured to death. Because that’s the goal.
Agreed, although they usually say I shouldn’t vote for either option as if there is a viable third possibility of a winner even though they never name that person when I asked… except for one guy. He said Cornel West. His reasoning? Both Trump and Biden could die before November and then Cornel West would win because anything is possible in the universe. Seriously.
I mean, many things are possible, including that outcome, whereas FTL and time travel do not seem to be possible. The question is, how probable is that outcome, and can you do anything to steer matters to it in a realistic way? I’d have to say that anyone sane enough to actually effect that outcome is too sane to come within a kilometer of even spending the time to plan it, let alone actually try it and die on the protective detail’s bullets.
The orange mobster has displayed his intentions against Muslims and it is far worse. Biden has sent several envoys to warn Israel that what they are doing is alienating the world and consolidating Arab support against them which will result in even more violence against Israel. For Biden to go against Israel publicly would hand the election to the orange tyrant.
You need to stop having those conversations and focus on what’s important. Right now, if the election were to be held, Trump wins in a landslide according to the polls (assuming EC more or less follows the popular trend).
What do you need to do before November to ensure that your queer daughter is protected in the extremely likely case of a 2nd Trump administration?
I just hope they learn before it’s too late that the people who stand idly by and/or vote in support of genocide of Palestinians because they’re not Palestinian are the same people who will do the same with queer people like us because they’re not queer.
They’re already turning the corner on immigrants. The recent Dem bill is more extreme than any border laws passed under Trump. And now it’s getting even more extreme with the new bipartisan version.
Stop using us as a shield to protect your horrific genocide. I wonder if their daughter even knows they’re appropriating her queerness to support slaughtering tens of thousands of children.
It’s not a Dem bill; it’s a bipartisan bill. It was the Democrats compromising in order to save Ukraine.
And your last paragraph is just disgusting. No one’s using you as a shield here. And no one is ‘appropriating her queerness’.
Do you have any idea what you’re even going on about? You seem to feel pretty strongly about it while not knowing what you’re talking about. That or you’re just buying into some sort of propaganda without thinking about it, which I guess amounts to the same.
I expect it is extremely confusing for many people when “Jewish” is a religion, an ethnicity, a nationality, a nation, and a political football. This leads to anything the Israeli government opposes to be construed in the same light, which is how we get people equating “Palestinians living in severe apartheid conditions inside the borders of the nation of Israel” with “Hamas.” And, of course, anyone who opposes the actions of the Israeli government is likely to get branded “antisemitic,” because if you oppose the Jewish nation you must also oppose the Jewish religion, ethnicity, and nationality, right? (Narrator: Wrong.)
Because of this conflation of so many different things being called the same thing, I try to make absolutely clear what I’m talking about (when I dare dip my toe into those shark-infested waters). Hamas fucking sucks. The Israeli government fucking sucks. What both of those entities do - and have done for a very long time - demonstrate that they are both genocidal shitbags. Supporters of either, be they Israeli citizens, Palestinians, or third parties, fucking suck right alongside them.
The fact is, both Trump and Biden will support genocide in Israel… but only one of them might commit genocide on queer people domestically. And it isn’t Biden.
I will do anything I can to keep my daughter and all other queer people safe. That means keeping Trump out of office at all costs. If voting for someone else will do that, great. Until someone tells me who that person is, I will have to hold my nose and vote for Biden.
Oh, sure - to be perfectly clear, nothing I said was intended to address that concern, and your position is absolutely sound. I was only referring to the tangent of “I rarely get an answer, but I do get told I support genocide,” outside of all that.
One of the other people who responded to her literally accused her of supporting genocide because she’s focused on her queer daughter in the comment they replied to and not on Palestine.
One of my closest friends moved to Tennessee right before his adolescent daughter came out as queer a few years back. I feel so bad for that kid. Her family is supportive of her, at least, but what a nightmare place to have to live as a gay kid.
It becomes a lot easier to get someone to trade up active current genocide for non-active future genocide. That anything works both ways and the GOP knows.
I think these people are more typically from troll farms than genuinely pro-Palestine, but some of theme probably are that stupid as well. I guess it’s a mixed bag.
There’s plenty of stupid out there. I tend to go by Hanlon’s razor for this sort of thing: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
Israel/US relations were at an all-time low under Biden already before the attack, and there’s every indication he’s using every back channel he has to make Netanyahu slow down his genocide. Sometimes diplomatic solutions are more efficient than a public Circus.
Yeah, US cutting its unconditional support to Israel was overdue decades ago. Howevers, as long as the rest of the political landscape doesn’t follow, Biden acting unilaterally and publicly just amounts to political suicide with no gain for anyone.
Last election I got to vote for “grab 'em by the pussy” or “black kids are just as good as rich kids” (or something similar. I can’t remember the quote exactly and I don’t have time to look it up).
This election I get to vote for genocide or genocide. I can’t wait.
Edit: I’ll take Biden over Trump any day. Trump terrifies me. I’m terrified of how many Americans are going to die if he wins. But I hate that these are our options.
One of these people was trying to do some good and made a verbal fumble probably caused by years of conditioning that got him where he is today and yes, old people say stuff like this by accident. He probably does have racist thoughts that he knows are bullshit but were put there by the shit job older generations have done in building society.
The other guy is a raging psycho who echoes Hitler phrases in his speeches.
Maybe vote to stop genocide of people in the country in which you live over a genocide that would happen whether or not Biden was in office because Trump would support it too.
Show me the current genocide of queer people in america.
The same place the genocide of queer people in Germany was in 1932. Do you know what happened in 1933? Do you know what happened between 1933 and 1945?
But please, do tell me who I should vote for that has a statistically likely chance of winning the U.S. presidential election in November and will also definitely end the genocide in Israel. Give me that name.
Once again, you do you, but don’t come to me wanting my vote to help you re-elect Ol’ Genocidin Biden.
I’m not here to stop you, I am here to make sure everyone realizes they are supporting someone who has ACTIVELY helped Israel commit genocidal actions.
Not passively, he bypassed congress twice already to send them more fucking shells.
You are once again hung up on what someone might do compared to what they know someone else is doing.
You think a moral victory that will in no way stop any genocides is more important than stopping a potential genocide that is just as possible as what happened in Germany in 1933.
You do know what happened in Germany in 1933, right?
And by 1939- before the Holocaust, before war even broke out, there were tens of thousands fewer gay men alive in Germany than there had been in 1932.
Did you even know about any of that that? Probably not since you don’t give a shit about queer people.
But in 1932, you would have told me that’s okay because even if Hitler does get in, queer people and the people that love them shouldn’t worry about any potential genocide, and besides, Paul von Hindenburg did nothing about Stalin’s genocide in the Ukraine and maintained friendly relations with Stalin, so if you vote for Hindenburg, you vote for genocide.
The whole phrase ‘bypassing Congress’ is propaganda. It’s literal weapons sales. Those are not required to go through Congress. I disagree with those sales, but what he’s doing is perfectly legal and not backhanded.
It is legal, it is backhanded, and to add onto it. I believe he ran it by Congress later on, and they okayed it.
That doesn’t change the fact that he did it, and bypassed congressional oversight.
We can’t be OK with someone else being what we don’t want them to be this because they’re on our side.
If you don’t call out your own side, just as much as you call anyone else’s, then it just doesn’t matter.
Why are we all calling out Israel so much but aren’t surprised at what Hamas?
Because one is so obvious that it doesn’t need to be fucking done, and the other is people that we thought were going to be better than that being so much worse than we thought they were.
Right, I get that you think I should take the chance on sacrificing my daughter’s life because somehow voting for [INSERT NAME HERE BUT NOT BIDEN OR TRUMP] in America, even though they will absolutely not win, will definitely end Israel’s genocide because *waves hand around randomly.*
That’s why you don’t give a shit about queer people. You care more about a moral victory where genocide happens in two countries than stopping a genocide that happens in one before it starts.
You say you wish queer people “all the best” and then tell me to risk my daughter’s life for a moral victory.
Very possibly, and maybe they also had parents who didn’t have much love for them, but to not understand or agree with the concept of a parent putting their own child first? That’s very weird.
What’s fun is that I regularly ask, “who should I vote for to prevent Trump from being president?” I rarely get an answer, but I do get told I support genocide. It’s extra-fun when I tell them I want to stop Trump to stop people like my queer daughter from being the victims of a genocide. That often makes them double down on telling me how much I want there to be a genocide.
I’ve even been told I should care more about people on the other side of the world than my own daughter’s life.
I am extremely sympathetic to the Palestinian cause and absolutely condemn Israel’s genocide… but at the expense of my own child’s life? Fuck no.
Anything to stop Trump and Republicans from putting queer people in “conversion” camps where they’re tortured to death. Because that’s the goal.
Removed by mod
Agreed, although they usually say I shouldn’t vote for either option as if there is a viable third possibility of a winner even though they never name that person when I asked… except for one guy. He said Cornel West. His reasoning? Both Trump and Biden could die before November and then Cornel West would win because anything is possible in the universe. Seriously.
I mean, many things are possible, including that outcome, whereas FTL and time travel do not seem to be possible. The question is, how probable is that outcome, and can you do anything to steer matters to it in a realistic way? I’d have to say that anyone sane enough to actually effect that outcome is too sane to come within a kilometer of even spending the time to plan it, let alone actually try it and die on the protective detail’s bullets.
Honestly, I’d rate FTL and time travel as slightly more probable than electing a third-party candidate as President.
The orange mobster has displayed his intentions against Muslims and it is far worse. Biden has sent several envoys to warn Israel that what they are doing is alienating the world and consolidating Arab support against them which will result in even more violence against Israel. For Biden to go against Israel publicly would hand the election to the orange tyrant.
You need to stop having those conversations and focus on what’s important. Right now, if the election were to be held, Trump wins in a landslide according to the polls (assuming EC more or less follows the popular trend).
What do you need to do before November to ensure that your queer daughter is protected in the extremely likely case of a 2nd Trump administration?
I just hope they learn before it’s too late that the people who stand idly by and/or vote in support of genocide of Palestinians because they’re not Palestinian are the same people who will do the same with queer people like us because they’re not queer.
They’re already turning the corner on immigrants. The recent Dem bill is more extreme than any border laws passed under Trump. And now it’s getting even more extreme with the new bipartisan version.
Stop using us as a shield to protect your horrific genocide. I wonder if their daughter even knows they’re appropriating her queerness to support slaughtering tens of thousands of children.
It’s not a Dem bill; it’s a bipartisan bill. It was the Democrats compromising in order to save Ukraine.
And your last paragraph is just disgusting. No one’s using you as a shield here. And no one is ‘appropriating her queerness’.
Do you have any idea what you’re even going on about? You seem to feel pretty strongly about it while not knowing what you’re talking about. That or you’re just buying into some sort of propaganda without thinking about it, which I guess amounts to the same.
They’re actually correct in how this thread is using queer people as shields for Israel’s genocide
There are queer Palestinians as well. Although there are far fewer today than there were 5 months ago
Excuse me? Appropriating? Trying to save her fucking life is appropriation?
Taking her being queer and using it as an excuse to ignore the slaughter of @innocents?
Yep you are appropriating her queer status to use.
In what way am I ignoring Israel’s genocide? I discuss it here on a daily basis.
I’m not making excuses for anyone here –
I expect it is extremely confusing for many people when “Jewish” is a religion, an ethnicity, a nationality, a nation, and a political football. This leads to anything the Israeli government opposes to be construed in the same light, which is how we get people equating “Palestinians living in severe apartheid conditions inside the borders of the nation of Israel” with “Hamas.” And, of course, anyone who opposes the actions of the Israeli government is likely to get branded “antisemitic,” because if you oppose the Jewish nation you must also oppose the Jewish religion, ethnicity, and nationality, right? (Narrator: Wrong.)
Because of this conflation of so many different things being called the same thing, I try to make absolutely clear what I’m talking about (when I dare dip my toe into those shark-infested waters). Hamas fucking sucks. The Israeli government fucking sucks. What both of those entities do - and have done for a very long time - demonstrate that they are both genocidal shitbags. Supporters of either, be they Israeli citizens, Palestinians, or third parties, fucking suck right alongside them.
But I’m talking about a domestic issue here.
The fact is, both Trump and Biden will support genocide in Israel… but only one of them might commit genocide on queer people domestically. And it isn’t Biden.
I will do anything I can to keep my daughter and all other queer people safe. That means keeping Trump out of office at all costs. If voting for someone else will do that, great. Until someone tells me who that person is, I will have to hold my nose and vote for Biden.
Oh, sure - to be perfectly clear, nothing I said was intended to address that concern, and your position is absolutely sound. I was only referring to the tangent of “I rarely get an answer, but I do get told I support genocide,” outside of all that.
One of the other people who responded to her literally accused her of supporting genocide because she’s focused on her queer daughter in the comment they replied to and not on Palestine.
One of my closest friends moved to Tennessee right before his adolescent daughter came out as queer a few years back. I feel so bad for that kid. Her family is supportive of her, at least, but what a nightmare place to have to live as a gay kid.
Oh wow, yeah, that must suck. Poor girl.
Genocide is a hell of a fucking wedge issue.
It becomes a lot easier to get someone to trade up active current genocide for non-active future genocide. That anything works both ways and the GOP knows.
I think these people are more typically from troll farms than genuinely pro-Palestine, but some of theme probably are that stupid as well. I guess it’s a mixed bag.
There’s plenty of stupid out there. I tend to go by Hanlon’s razor for this sort of thing: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”
I think that motto has been losing it’s power recently. Ol’ Hanlon didn’t conceive of malicious stupidity
The reach of Troll Farms is very broad and very deep: https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook-troll-farms-report-us-2020-election/amp/
We are just sick of our government assisting Israel in its genocidal actions.
You want my vote, earn it.
Israel/US relations were at an all-time low under Biden already before the attack, and there’s every indication he’s using every back channel he has to make Netanyahu slow down his genocide. Sometimes diplomatic solutions are more efficient than a public Circus.
Honestly, at 30,000 dead.
Maybe it’s time we just step back and let Israel deal with the consequences of its own choices.
Shit let’s just start a new diplomatic relationship with one of their enemies.
We can be all like “Look here’s plenty of guns, ammo, and missiles. We are friends now, have fun!”
Yeah, US cutting its unconditional support to Israel was overdue decades ago. Howevers, as long as the rest of the political landscape doesn’t follow, Biden acting unilaterally and publicly just amounts to political suicide with no gain for anyone.
Last election I got to vote for “grab 'em by the pussy” or “black kids are just as good as rich kids” (or something similar. I can’t remember the quote exactly and I don’t have time to look it up).
This election I get to vote for genocide or genocide. I can’t wait.
Edit: I’ll take Biden over Trump any day. Trump terrifies me. I’m terrified of how many Americans are going to die if he wins. But I hate that these are our options.
One of these people was trying to do some good and made a verbal fumble probably caused by years of conditioning that got him where he is today and yes, old people say stuff like this by accident. He probably does have racist thoughts that he knows are bullshit but were put there by the shit job older generations have done in building society.
The other guy is a raging psycho who echoes Hitler phrases in his speeches.
Maybe vote to stop genocide of people in the country in which you live over a genocide that would happen whether or not Biden was in office because Trump would support it too.
Show me the current genocide of queer people in america.
Show me 1000’s of queer people being starved, left without power, medical help, water.
The same place the genocide of queer people in Germany was in 1932. Do you know what happened in 1933? Do you know what happened between 1933 and 1945?
But please, do tell me who I should vote for that has a statistically likely chance of winning the U.S. presidential election in November and will also definitely end the genocide in Israel. Give me that name.
Idgaf who you vote for.
Once again, you do you, but don’t come to me wanting my vote to help you re-elect Ol’ Genocidin Biden.
I’m not here to stop you, I am here to make sure everyone realizes they are supporting someone who has ACTIVELY helped Israel commit genocidal actions.
Not passively, he bypassed congress twice already to send them more fucking shells.
You are once again hung up on what someone might do compared to what they know someone else is doing.
Because you don’t care about queer people.
Because you don’t care about queer people.
I’m sure you think that because you don’t care about queer people.
After the first 20 times you use that excuse it stops working.
It’s not an excuse, it’s a fact.
You think a moral victory that will in no way stop any genocides is more important than stopping a potential genocide that is just as possible as what happened in Germany in 1933.
You do know what happened in Germany in 1933, right?
For example, in May, this happened: https://www.hmd.org.uk/resource/6-may-1933-looting-of-the-institute-of-sexology/
And by 1939- before the Holocaust, before war even broke out, there were tens of thousands fewer gay men alive in Germany than there had been in 1932.
Did you even know about any of that that? Probably not since you don’t give a shit about queer people.
But in 1932, you would have told me that’s okay because even if Hitler does get in, queer people and the people that love them shouldn’t worry about any potential genocide, and besides, Paul von Hindenburg did nothing about Stalin’s genocide in the Ukraine and maintained friendly relations with Stalin, so if you vote for Hindenburg, you vote for genocide.
And yes, I am comparing the guy who kept a book of Hitler speeches by his bedside and quotes Mein Kampf to Hitler.
The whole phrase ‘bypassing Congress’ is propaganda. It’s literal weapons sales. Those are not required to go through Congress. I disagree with those sales, but what he’s doing is perfectly legal and not backhanded.
It is legal, it is backhanded, and to add onto it. I believe he ran it by Congress later on, and they okayed it.
That doesn’t change the fact that he did it, and bypassed congressional oversight.
We can’t be OK with someone else being what we don’t want them to be this because they’re on our side.
If you don’t call out your own side, just as much as you call anyone else’s, then it just doesn’t matter.
Why are we all calling out Israel so much but aren’t surprised at what Hamas?
Because one is so obvious that it doesn’t need to be fucking done, and the other is people that we thought were going to be better than that being so much worse than we thought they were.
I am not saying it’s okay. In fact, in the comment you replied to, I said I don’t approve.
We need laws to prevent this sort of action.
I can’t believe anyone is so fucking willfully ignorant they can’t see how much worse Trump is, but here we are.
If you don’t vote for me, you ain’t black jack
Most likely they don’t have children of their own. Easier to say dumb shit like this.
I have 5 kids and I am the one who told them that.
They said they were afraid of their child going to a conversion camp.
I said that we can fix mistakes if everyone is still alive and pointed out that they would have to be the one to put them in the camp.
So yes, I believe that the importance of irreversible death is more important than temporary troubles.
I stand by that.
Alive?
https://ohiocapitaljournal.com/2022/10/31/conversion-therapy-bans-could-prevent-hundreds-of-youth-suicides-over-the-next-decade/
https://people.com/conversion-therapy-left-gay-man-broken-now-he-explores-how-it-changed-aspiring-nun-who-died-by-suicide-7963379
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/press/lgb-suicide-ct-press-release/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1053024/lgbtq-youth-in-us-attempted-suicide-conversion-therapy-experience/
But I’m guessing you’ll say those suicides were their fault, not the conversion therapy’s, so anyone put in those camps will be just fine.
Because you don’t give a shit about queer people.
100% the camps fault.
Who put them in the conversion camps to start with?
Their parents for now.
When Trump wins? Probably the government. Which is the whole fucking point of why I WANT TO KEEP MY DAUGHTER ALIVE.
For fuck’s sake, you seem to think I should just abandon her or something. Why are you so goddamn callous about the lives of queer people?
Once again you try to redirect this towards me being against queer people.
No problem at all with them and wish them all the best.
So you think that if trump wins the government might go against all previous examples and pass a law to force minors into conversion camps?
Maybe, but I guarantee you that other people’s children are starving, dying, and suffering right now.
But they are far away and brown so they don’t matter.
Right, I get that you think I should take the chance on sacrificing my daughter’s life because somehow voting for [INSERT NAME HERE BUT NOT BIDEN OR TRUMP] in America, even though they will absolutely not win, will definitely end Israel’s genocide because *waves hand around randomly.*
That’s why you don’t give a shit about queer people. You care more about a moral victory where genocide happens in two countries than stopping a genocide that happens in one before it starts.
You say you wish queer people “all the best” and then tell me to risk my daughter’s life for a moral victory.
You do not give a shit about queer people.
Very possibly, and maybe they also had parents who didn’t have much love for them, but to not understand or agree with the concept of a parent putting their own child first? That’s very weird.