In 2020 38% of the vote was from Dems, 38% from republicans…
What wins/loses Michigan is independent voters, and Biden doesn’t do well with them, because they want more than “I’m not the other guy! Even tho we agree on lots of stuff, we’re still different”
Hell. biden isn’t even doing well with Dem voters in an unopposed primary.
That should make everyone very concerned, but there’s a vocal minority of Biden supporters who demand 100% loyalty and 0% questions.
Could just be that you can only run so many campaigns in a row with “If you don’t vote for us, it’s going to be the end of the world as we know it. And at least I’m not as bad as the other guy.” With the exception of Obama’s first run against McCain, that’s been the pitch for every single election I’ve ever been able to vote in, as well as a few before it. It gets old real quick, makes them come off as insincere, and doesn’t motivate anyone when we’re still largely dealing with the same BS issues that we were 20 years ago.
Trying to browbeat people into voting with the same old song and dance has diminishing returns, especially when your candidate is increasingly out of step with many of the voters they should be courting on major issues.
We’re just suppose to be happy with voting against a facist instead of voting for someone who’s political philosophies match our own. The worst part is Dems don’t realize this is basically going to be every election from now on and if they don’t change their tune they’ll lose to voter apathy
Well read leftists have often said things like neoliberalism leads to fascism, or neoliberalism holds space for fascism to take, and I can’t believe how few people have recognized that they’ve been right about that all along. It’s not even just a duopoly issue too, fascism is rising around the whole world.
That’s how the world works. Pretending that’s not what’s happening is how you get a fascist takeover. Primary better candidates or deal with it. The rest of us don’t want to deal with your angst in the form of the end of our democracy.
That’s how the world works. Pretending that’s not what’s happening is how you get a fascist takeover. Primary better candidates or deal with it. The rest of us don’t want to deal with your angst in the form of the end of our democracy.
If you take another look at your sentence, its so fuckin vague and filledd with emotional platitudes that i can use the same words, changing not a single one, to argue against your position.
We leftists are tired of you and your ilks tantrums about us not voting for Biden.
Tired of your victim blaming, tired of your complete and aggessive ignorance of the current issues and how politics actually work.
The loudest of you dumb motherfuckers are simply repeating what you heard on the boob tube. You know nothing, and my yelling at your now will change nothing, because you have been reduced to nothing. Nothing but a parrot.
its a bad joke, and the punchline is you’re never gonna understand what a useful idiot you have become for fascism.
You’ll wind up dealing with a bleaker outlook on democracy one way or another. Just see how long the Democrats can cry wolf with “Oh no, the other guy is going to destroy our democracy, and I swear to god, guys, just vote for us one more time and we’re totally going to fix it this time.” You can only pull this bit so many times before people stop taking you seriously. At a certain point, you have to ask how stupid the DNC can be? This was a losing tactic with Hillary Clinton, it’s not looking so great for Biden, but just keep rolling it out every few years, it’s bound to start working sooner or later, right? Definitely sounds like a winning move to me. Heck, it’s real convincing when that’s what Biden ran on last time, and he’s not exactly crushing it with his strategy of “I’ll just go talk to these Republicans like I did 40 years ago, I’m sure we can reach an understanding like we used to, back when I still wholeheartedly helped pass laws that would lock up minorities.”
I’m sure being able to say “I told you so” will make you feel much better if things don’t pan out and it turns out you can’t just nag and guilt trip people into voting for a candidate that holds views they can’t stomach voting for.
You’ll wind up dealing with a bleaker outlook on democracy one way or another.
Well ONE of the ways is literally a fascist takeover. So excuse me but I’ll take Option B please.
You can bitch and moan about the DNC all you want but that won’t stop it.
I’m sure being able to say “I told you so” will make you feel much better if things don’t pan out and it turns out you can’t just nag and guilt trip people into voting for a candidate that holds views they can’t stomach voting for.
I’m not going to have time to rub your dumb faces in it when I’m literally fleeing for my life. Your principals will get people killed.
Can I just butt in and say that you both have a point? On one hand, yes, things could be better than what moderates offers, and moderates don’t like what moderates do while yes, moderates have a disdain toward those left to them and yes, those who received that disdains are correct to throw it back at them and make their life harder. On the other hand, yes, democracy comes first before feuds, and feuds can resume later.
Sure, but if the people dissatisfied with Biden would put more an effort apart from presidential runs it would make more sense. All this emphasis on hating the primary candidates every four years is senseless. If you really care show up for the other stuff like local elections/ midterms, or put forward a better candidate yourself, or maybe even run yourself! In other words: shit or get off the can. This obsession with the president is unhealthy. You want progress? Get us a house/Senate with more than a slim majority so we can pass policy. Anything else is just jerking off in the wind.
The reason Biden got such a big uncommitted vote is the current ongoing genocide in Israel. The solution is him doing more than simply calling Netanyahu an asshole then turning around and saying “I’m a Zionist”.
IDK, it could also be that Biden is continuing the trump era “lock kids in cages” border policies and has signalled he wants to be even more cruel at the border. So he could stop that as well.
The time has passed, but he could have also not ran this time around. However, his ego got in the way. He has had dismissal approval numbers and he still chose to run which has put us in this position.
The solution is for Biden to listen to the voters before November and to change tact on critical issues. Before he loses a chunk of voters that simply don’t vote because the choice between two genocidal candidates violates their moral compass.
I say all this as someone that will vote Biden. He’s out of touch and running a terrible campaign. For fucks sake, he should be saying “abortion” at every rally, but he won’t because he’s a devout Catholic that has a hard time hitting so hard on a clearly winning issue.
His campaign can be summed up as “I’m not trump” which is exactly what fucking got trump into power the last time.
No, no, NO! voters need to understand that democracy demands sacrifice. Stupid, uneducated and selfish voters should grow up and learn that their problems, their dreams and desires aren’t representative of the country’s, the vast majority of which is center-right somehow.
Democracy is when you hold your nose, put your own desires in the back seat, and vote for who you’re told to.
Anything else leads to fascism you tankie/shill/russian/chinese agent/you absolute child!
Edit: Holy shit i did such a good job pretending to be a liberal biden lover it even fucked up the guy i was agreeing with! Sorry cogman. read it again as a satire
Grow the fuck up. This is a primary, not the fucking general election. Voting against Biden in the primary to tell him “I don’t like what you are doing” is a perfectly valid and important way to vote. Why the fuck do you think we have primaries for incumbent presidents in the first place?
Democrats aren’t the fascists so stop fucking acting like it when someone strategically votes. Biden isn’t god and a vote against him, IN THE FUCKING PRIMARY, is not a vote for Trump. You dipshit. It does not lead to a Trump presidency. If anything, it’s the fucking opposite, because it gives Biden time to course correct before he loses votes due to apathy or anger. Justified anger, if you consider the fact that the people voting uncommitted believe he’s supporting a fucking genocide.
It’s not like if biden got 100% of the primary vote he’d have any better or worse odds at beating trump. Use your fucking brain.
Half the fucking reason biden is as progressive as he has been is because of how well bernie and warren did. That’s what happens when you vote your heart in the fucking primary. Biden wouldn’t have been nearly as good on things like antitrust without the votes against him, IN THE FUCKING PRIMARY.
Well, i was gearing up for a fight and really for real didn’t read your reply so i raked you over the coals when you didn’t deserve it. I already deleted them so cmon man, forgive a brother eh?
LMAO. Good luck with that attitude. It’s exactly the reason democrats and biden risk losing in 2024. Plugging your ears and running away when any sort of cognitive dissonance sets in.
Goodbye. I hope you eventually learn how primaries work.
“I’m not the other guy” is actually a very strong case when you look at the other guy.
The other guy wanted a “Muslim ban”.
The other guy has a subdivision in Israel named after him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Heights
Biden supports Israel due to long term alliances/treaties.
Trump supports Israel because they’re killing undesirables.
They are not the same.
and because the evilgelical christian nationalists who worship the ground trump walks on supports israel (but they support israel because it’s necessary for the rapture and the return of their god in their death cult, but trump doesn’t know or care about that).
Biden supports Israel due to long term alliances/treaties.
That’s not what Biden says…
He said that when he was a small child and Israel was formed (Biden is literally older than Israel) his dad told him that Israel were the good guys, and had Biden promise to always support them.
That is why Biden calls himself a Zionist and will always support Israel.
A promise a toddler made to his farther almost a century ago.
But hey, that’s just going off what Biden has been saying for decades, and unfortunately we can’t just believe what Biden says. He could be lying or just confused, it’s a coin flip.
Let’s simplify the situation for you. Israel has been designated as a U.S. Major Non-NATO Ally under U.S. law. So Biden can say whatever he wants. He is compelled, by US law, to support them.
But you’re right, we should all vote in Cheeto again who definitely would do better in the situation.
I get it, they’re both shit choices. Spicy Cuttlefish or Vanilla Bean Paste situation.
I don’t know what would be more ridiculous, that you’re right and once someone is a US ally we have to support anything they do, up to and including genocide…
Or that you know you’re wrong and rationalizing that hard to defend a genocide.
Come back and read the thread once you’ve taken a few deep breaths.
As I did clearly state “I get it, they’re both shit choices. Spicy Cuttlefish or Vanilla Bean Paste situation.”
Don’t be angry at me because the system has been fucked since before either of us were born. Russia wants us to be devisive against each other. They want a strong disenfranchised faction of Dem voters to “go against Biden” so that the Russublicans take power again.
has been fucked since before either of us were born. Russia wants us to be devisive against each other. They want a strong disenfranchised faction of Dem voters to “go against Biden” so that the Russublicans take power again.
Agreed
Which is why Biden needs to stand up to Israel to stop his political bleeding on this and mitigate the harm that has already been done
Ending Israel’s genocide immediately is the politically pragmatic move. Biden is losing votes and helping Trump by not prioritizing this to the greatest extent possible
And Netanyahu knows this. And Netanyahu prefers Trump to Biden for innumerable reasons. Which is why Netanyahu has been making the killing as barbaric as possible - it hurts Biden and helps Trump; in addition to it satisfying Likud’s own goals of annexing Gaza
Likud Israel is not Biden’s ally, and Likud Israel may not even be the West’s ally. Biden needs to immediately reorient our view of Israel or the world will suffer the consequences of a final Trump presidency
Begrudgingly voting for Biden probably isn’t enough. It’s too close, and Biden doesn’t excite voters enough.
You need to get others to do it too. And the fact is, that’s really hard to do if you’re trying to convince voters directly.
What’s easier and has a chance of working is being outspoken now before the general has even started, and pray that someone on his campaign team realizes Biden is going to have to move left to beat trump.
Or you could tell people to shut up and hope Bidens campaign team realizes on their own before it’s too late while getting zero feedback from voters.
Pick inaction all you like, I just don’t like it’s chances.
In 2020 38% of the vote was from Dems, 38% from republicans…
What wins/loses Michigan is independent voters, and Biden doesn’t do well with them, because they want more than “I’m not the other guy! Even tho we agree on lots of stuff, we’re still different”
Hell. biden isn’t even doing well with Dem voters in an unopposed primary.
That should make everyone very concerned, but there’s a vocal minority of Biden supporters who demand 100% loyalty and 0% questions.
More like we’re tired of people like you not offering any solutions, just shitting on the only non fascist with a chance.
Could just be that you can only run so many campaigns in a row with “If you don’t vote for us, it’s going to be the end of the world as we know it. And at least I’m not as bad as the other guy.” With the exception of Obama’s first run against McCain, that’s been the pitch for every single election I’ve ever been able to vote in, as well as a few before it. It gets old real quick, makes them come off as insincere, and doesn’t motivate anyone when we’re still largely dealing with the same BS issues that we were 20 years ago.
Trying to browbeat people into voting with the same old song and dance has diminishing returns, especially when your candidate is increasingly out of step with many of the voters they should be courting on major issues.
We’re just suppose to be happy with voting against a facist instead of voting for someone who’s political philosophies match our own. The worst part is Dems don’t realize this is basically going to be every election from now on and if they don’t change their tune they’ll lose to voter apathy
Well read leftists have often said things like neoliberalism leads to fascism, or neoliberalism holds space for fascism to take, and I can’t believe how few people have recognized that they’ve been right about that all along. It’s not even just a duopoly issue too, fascism is rising around the whole world.
That’s how the world works. Pretending that’s not what’s happening is how you get a fascist takeover. Primary better candidates or deal with it. The rest of us don’t want to deal with your angst in the form of the end of our democracy.
Check this out:
If you take another look at your sentence, its so fuckin vague and filledd with emotional platitudes that i can use the same words, changing not a single one, to argue against your position.
We leftists are tired of you and your ilks tantrums about us not voting for Biden.
Tired of your victim blaming, tired of your complete and aggessive ignorance of the current issues and how politics actually work.
The loudest of you dumb motherfuckers are simply repeating what you heard on the boob tube. You know nothing, and my yelling at your now will change nothing, because you have been reduced to nothing. Nothing but a parrot.
its a bad joke, and the punchline is you’re never gonna understand what a useful idiot you have become for fascism.
You’ll wind up dealing with a bleaker outlook on democracy one way or another. Just see how long the Democrats can cry wolf with “Oh no, the other guy is going to destroy our democracy, and I swear to god, guys, just vote for us one more time and we’re totally going to fix it this time.” You can only pull this bit so many times before people stop taking you seriously. At a certain point, you have to ask how stupid the DNC can be? This was a losing tactic with Hillary Clinton, it’s not looking so great for Biden, but just keep rolling it out every few years, it’s bound to start working sooner or later, right? Definitely sounds like a winning move to me. Heck, it’s real convincing when that’s what Biden ran on last time, and he’s not exactly crushing it with his strategy of “I’ll just go talk to these Republicans like I did 40 years ago, I’m sure we can reach an understanding like we used to, back when I still wholeheartedly helped pass laws that would lock up minorities.”
I’m sure being able to say “I told you so” will make you feel much better if things don’t pan out and it turns out you can’t just nag and guilt trip people into voting for a candidate that holds views they can’t stomach voting for.
Well ONE of the ways is literally a fascist takeover. So excuse me but I’ll take Option B please.
You can bitch and moan about the DNC all you want but that won’t stop it.
I’m not going to have time to rub your dumb faces in it when I’m literally fleeing for my life. Your principals will get people killed.
Can I just butt in and say that you both have a point? On one hand, yes, things could be better than what moderates offers, and moderates don’t like what moderates do while yes, moderates have a disdain toward those left to them and yes, those who received that disdains are correct to throw it back at them and make their life harder. On the other hand, yes, democracy comes first before feuds, and feuds can resume later.
Sure, but if the people dissatisfied with Biden would put more an effort apart from presidential runs it would make more sense. All this emphasis on hating the primary candidates every four years is senseless. If you really care show up for the other stuff like local elections/ midterms, or put forward a better candidate yourself, or maybe even run yourself! In other words: shit or get off the can. This obsession with the president is unhealthy. You want progress? Get us a house/Senate with more than a slim majority so we can pass policy. Anything else is just jerking off in the wind.
The reason Biden got such a big uncommitted vote is the current ongoing genocide in Israel. The solution is him doing more than simply calling Netanyahu an asshole then turning around and saying “I’m a Zionist”.
IDK, it could also be that Biden is continuing the trump era “lock kids in cages” border policies and has signalled he wants to be even more cruel at the border. So he could stop that as well.
The time has passed, but he could have also not ran this time around. However, his ego got in the way. He has had dismissal approval numbers and he still chose to run which has put us in this position.
The solution is for Biden to listen to the voters before November and to change tact on critical issues. Before he loses a chunk of voters that simply don’t vote because the choice between two genocidal candidates violates their moral compass.
I say all this as someone that will vote Biden. He’s out of touch and running a terrible campaign. For fucks sake, he should be saying “abortion” at every rally, but he won’t because he’s a devout Catholic that has a hard time hitting so hard on a clearly winning issue.
His campaign can be summed up as “I’m not trump” which is exactly what fucking got trump into power the last time.
No, no, NO! voters need to understand that democracy demands sacrifice. Stupid, uneducated and selfish voters should grow up and learn that their problems, their dreams and desires aren’t representative of the country’s, the vast majority of which is center-right somehow.
Democracy is when you hold your nose, put your own desires in the back seat, and vote for who you’re told to.
Anything else leads to fascism you tankie/shill/russian/chinese agent/you absolute child!
Edit: Holy shit i did such a good job pretending to be a liberal biden lover it even fucked up the guy i was agreeing with! Sorry cogman. read it again as a satire
Grow the fuck up. This is a primary, not the fucking general election. Voting against Biden in the primary to tell him “I don’t like what you are doing” is a perfectly valid and important way to vote. Why the fuck do you think we have primaries for incumbent presidents in the first place?
Democrats aren’t the fascists so stop fucking acting like it when someone strategically votes. Biden isn’t god and a vote against him, IN THE FUCKING PRIMARY, is not a vote for Trump. You dipshit. It does not lead to a Trump presidency. If anything, it’s the fucking opposite, because it gives Biden time to course correct before he loses votes due to apathy or anger. Justified anger, if you consider the fact that the people voting uncommitted believe he’s supporting a fucking genocide.
It’s not like if biden got 100% of the primary vote he’d have any better or worse odds at beating trump. Use your fucking brain.
Half the fucking reason biden is as progressive as he has been is because of how well bernie and warren did. That’s what happens when you vote your heart in the fucking primary. Biden wouldn’t have been nearly as good on things like antitrust without the votes against him, IN THE FUCKING PRIMARY.
Dude, he’s agreeing with you, he just went overboard with the satire
Was not clear before the edit and he deleted other posts where he furthered the satire.
Understandable.
Well, i was gearing up for a fight and really for real didn’t read your reply so i raked you over the coals when you didn’t deserve it. I already deleted them so cmon man, forgive a brother eh?
deleted by creator
Fuck off mister
If you can’t take insults, don’t throw them.
Respond to my earlier comment or fuck right off with your “I’m giving you a chance” shit.
deleted by creator
LMAO. Good luck with that attitude. It’s exactly the reason democrats and biden risk losing in 2024. Plugging your ears and running away when any sort of cognitive dissonance sets in.
Goodbye. I hope you eventually learn how primaries work.
“I’m not the other guy” is actually a very strong case when you look at the other guy.
The other guy wanted a “Muslim ban”.
The other guy has a subdivision in Israel named after him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Heights
Biden supports Israel due to long term alliances/treaties.
Trump supports Israel because they’re killing undesirables.
They are not the same.
and because the evilgelical christian nationalists who worship the ground trump walks on supports israel (but they support israel because it’s necessary for the rapture and the return of their god in their death cult, but trump doesn’t know or care about that).
That’s not what Biden says…
He said that when he was a small child and Israel was formed (Biden is literally older than Israel) his dad told him that Israel were the good guys, and had Biden promise to always support them.
That is why Biden calls himself a Zionist and will always support Israel.
A promise a toddler made to his farther almost a century ago.
But hey, that’s just going off what Biden has been saying for decades, and unfortunately we can’t just believe what Biden says. He could be lying or just confused, it’s a coin flip.
Let’s simplify the situation for you. Israel has been designated as a U.S. Major Non-NATO Ally under U.S. law. So Biden can say whatever he wants. He is compelled, by US law, to support them.
But you’re right, we should all vote in Cheeto again who definitely would do better in the situation.
I get it, they’re both shit choices. Spicy Cuttlefish or Vanilla Bean Paste situation.
I don’t know what would be more ridiculous, that you’re right and once someone is a US ally we have to support anything they do, up to and including genocide…
Or that you know you’re wrong and rationalizing that hard to defend a genocide.
Things I have not stated:
Come back and read the thread once you’ve taken a few deep breaths.
As I did clearly state “I get it, they’re both shit choices. Spicy Cuttlefish or Vanilla Bean Paste situation.”
Don’t be angry at me because the system has been fucked since before either of us were born. Russia wants us to be devisive against each other. They want a strong disenfranchised faction of Dem voters to “go against Biden” so that the Russublicans take power again.
Agreed
Which is why Biden needs to stand up to Israel to stop his political bleeding on this and mitigate the harm that has already been done
Ending Israel’s genocide immediately is the politically pragmatic move. Biden is losing votes and helping Trump by not prioritizing this to the greatest extent possible
And Netanyahu knows this. And Netanyahu prefers Trump to Biden for innumerable reasons. Which is why Netanyahu has been making the killing as barbaric as possible - it hurts Biden and helps Trump; in addition to it satisfying Likud’s own goals of annexing Gaza
Likud Israel is not Biden’s ally, and Likud Israel may not even be the West’s ally. Biden needs to immediately reorient our view of Israel or the world will suffer the consequences of a final Trump presidency
Bruv, I’m just making the rational choice in a binary system. The choice that leads to less bad shit happening to me and the rest of the world.
Begrudgingly voting for Biden probably isn’t enough. It’s too close, and Biden doesn’t excite voters enough.
You need to get others to do it too. And the fact is, that’s really hard to do if you’re trying to convince voters directly.
What’s easier and has a chance of working is being outspoken now before the general has even started, and pray that someone on his campaign team realizes Biden is going to have to move left to beat trump.
Or you could tell people to shut up and hope Bidens campaign team realizes on their own before it’s too late while getting zero feedback from voters.
Pick inaction all you like, I just don’t like it’s chances.