Primaries are for pretending we’re a functioning democracy. The general is for acceptance.

More like right wing fascism vs neoliberal fascism.

Fair enough

no one is proposing voting for trump here

Stop acting like Biden is just being lied to by Israel and is some helpless victim. He is absolutely responsible for his continued allowance of the genocide of Palestinians. Hold your politicians to a higher standard.

So the CIA, NSA, … are just a bunch of idiots that can’t have info on their own? Then why spend so much money on them?

You are on a different and better level. You are a Chad consequentialist. Managing probabilities, shooting for the best outcomes, minimizing losses. Setting up the group of ideologically aligned leaders for future success. Fighting off fascism for four more years against all odds.

They are a weak feelings voter. Hopes Biden senpai will notice them and throwing a temper tantrum when he doesn’t. Talks about genocide, but doesn’t actually care if Trump will handle the genocide any differently than Biden. Wants everyone else to suffer because they are suffering. Hoping if Trump gets elected that someone else will do the hard work and fighting to fix everything. Is burned out on politics, but instead of not voting quietly, makes big posts about how not voting is actually a good and very smart idea because they can’t handle the fact that they need to rest.

I’m not voting for someone who’s pro genocide, sorry.

Note: I despise Trump.

Maybe it does… But not in the way many think.

Imagine Trump wins, starts doing the shit he is saying he will do and the outcome is a civil war. I think Israel would stop being something the US would think about. And then the genocide stops… At least in one direction. But given the bad blood there is now there…

And letting the greater evil in at the local level!!!1?!! Just admit you love Putin smdh smhmh

So the only argument in favor of Biden is “I’m shitty but not like Trump”?

I won’t vote for someone who’s pro genocide. It’s pretty simple.

People who aid and abet genocide don’t get my vote.

Biden’s not changing course, so he clearly thinks he can win just with the votes of people who are okay voting for a pro-genocide candidate. That’s his call to make.

Agreed. Local candidates and referendum votes are often more directly impactful to local communities.

Things like legalization of weed, protection of abortion rights, and ranked choice voting usually show up as referendum votes. And when it comes to how homelessness, police, financial aid, schools, etc. in your area are managed, that’s all local politics.

re the reign of terror. Extremely bad yes but I think this quote by mark Twain highlights flaws in how we think about this stuff.

THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.

Mark Twain, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court

They were trying to throw off a horrifically oppressive system that had been going on centuries. Defs killed too many innocents, defs had problems with paranoia. Also the lesser violence in the struggle between nobles and everyone else.

The book is awesome btw

I’m told there will be cake.

[off topic]

“The Difference Engine” is an alternate history novel where Byron became Prime Minister and Ada Lovelace got to have a working computer to work with, Written by B. Sterling and W. Gibson.

The Luddites weren’t against technology. They were against technology taking their jobs.

Sorry, but there aren’t opportunities in chaos. That’s some cringe edgelord larping. There are no opportunities gained in chaos, only death and suffering.

Honestly, your goofy accelerationism seems more like the cope of someone that’s given up what they see as “the first game.” You think you can come back in the second game and win a best of 3. Again, I’m sorry to disappoint, but there probably won’t be a 2nd game for you unless you’re incredibly lucky.

I’m not betting on a second chance. There’s no benefit to not trying my hardest on game 1 if won’t do much to improve my chances of making it to game 2. If your strategy is to hide, you’re a privileged coward. Most people won’t have that chance, and betting that you aren’t most people is wistful thinking.

The system is broken, fucked, dysfunction, shitty, and unacceptable. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s better than openly genocidal fascism. I might die under Democrats; I will die under Republicans.

We inherently lack freedom of choice on most things. You don’t choose the class of your parents. You don’t choose your gender, sex, attraction, neurotypicality, ethnicity, race, culture, or access to learning as a child. You have to play the cards you’re given.

In a purely descriptive sense, Republican control will result in every bad thing that would happen under Democrats, plus all the promises they’re making about LGBTQ genocide, absurd deregulation, removal of every social program, invading Mexico, targeted prosecution of political threats, and mandatory fascist propaganda in schools. Those are just some of consequences id Republicans win.

The cost of the 2nd amendment is thousands of deaths from guns every year that wouldn’t have happened without it. 2nd amendment advocates constantly ignore that consequence. If you try to show it to them, they mentally cannot perceive it. They ignore the costs and live in the delusion that they get a free lunch. A lot of conservative logic hinges on ignoring “externalities,” that they don’t personally have to deal with. They love talking about basic economics, but their supposed worldview cannot accept it.

Even the cynical conservatives are often living a delusion. They recognize the direct pain they cause to poor people, but they fail to recognize the long term cost of their behavior. Encouraging global fascism has the adorable effect of increasing the risk of global conflict. Just as most liberals ignored the fascism that capitalism leads to, fascists ignore the serious war that nationalism leads to.

Modern war between nations cannot be won by the participants. Liberals aren’t much better on this front, nor are many socialists for that matter. The reality is that we need deescalation or everyone might lose. We don’t just need to not accelerate, we need to slam on the breaks. The odds are stacked against success, but fueling the fire is joining the global death cult that fascists and liberals are unwittingly leading.

In short, you’re thinking small like humans are designed to do. Humans are dangerous, so not trying to exploit them isn’t just morally right, but prudent.

I don’t think it’s that complicated

As I said, your vote isn’t for the Democrats, it’s against the Republicans.

The first amendment right to petition our representatives for the redress of grievances is a right with no teeth. Our representatives cannot listen and retain their career. This is an example of regulatory capture and government failure.

But activism is not just about sending messages to officials, rather it’s about resisting, whether causing inconvenience through civil disobedience to organizing to outright sabotage (such as blowing up oil pipelines ). If you cant participate in civil action yourself, support those who do. Materially, if possible, but even thank you letters and cookies can help.

The US is dying. But we can hang on until the GOP dies first, or we can let them take over and burn out in a blaze of facism and war, in which case you can be sure Palestine will be razed to the ground.

In the meantime, the Biden administration is arranging for air drops and trying to secure an armistice, no matter what a dick Biden is, the White House seems aware the clime has change regarding universal tolerance of the Palestinian holocaust.

This “they’ll win anyway” is some miserly nihilistic take - we’ve won against the Nazis before we’ll win again.

“how many times are as supposed to vote to prevent the fascists from gaining power?”

Until you can no longer physically vote.

You are part of a society that still allows you to politically organise around your beliefs, so get involved in your local politics and help bring your vision of a better future to more people - change doesn’t happen by itself.

Join a union. Get out there and make it happen.

Did voting for Biden stop Trump this last election?

Um, yes? It didn’t stop Trump from breathing, but it stopped him from being president this term. Even if it somehow eliminated Trump, there is always the next Trump. There is no point where we can stop fighting to preserve past victories, even as we fight for new ones.

How many times are we supposed to vote Democrat against our own interests

None. Voting Democrat is always in your interests. (At least until something major changes) Voting corrupt Democrats out in primaries is even moreso. It would be nice if we lived in a system that can support more than two parties, but we don’t.

Will it always be “neoliberalism or fascism” every election

That’s why we fight to take over the Democratic party. Every obstacle to defeating Democrats in primaries has a corresponding obstacle to winning a general with a third party candidate. Winning as a third party is both more difficult, and more risky.

You want a shortcut, but there isn’t one.

Yes. Exactly that. Our federal elections have been corrupt since the 1800s. The Republican effort to curtail the Democratic party and erect an autocratic state started in the 1960s (though there were earlier efforts in the 1920s and 1930s).

I get that it sucks that the US is not at all what we were promised it would be, but letting the Republican party destroy the Democratic party is only going to make things way, way worse for the majority of Americans. And civil war and its aftermath is going to take decades (if not over a century) to resolve.

The French Revolution started in 1789. The Third Republic was founded in 1870, between which the guillotines had to be rolled out several times, and Napoleon had to go to war with the rest of Europe. When the two-state system falls in the US, you can expect chaos and bloodshed for the rest of your life, including kids prostituting themselves on the streets for food (what was seen in post-Soviet eastern bloc states after the USSR fell in the early 1990s). It’s going to be grisly for anyone who doesn’t flee abroad, and for some who do.

As per Bertrand Russell, war doesn’t decide who is right, only who is left. And this includes civil war.

but not selfish for Biden not to run

How is that an argument to not vote against Trump?

This is your argument, tell me if I"m wrong: “I will not vote against Trump because Biden acted selfishly.”

To point out the obvious, nobody prevented anyone else from running for president. Several people did and Biden has beaten them all. How can you expect someone to beat Trump who can’t beat Biden?

Sure it’s fine to be upset, but being upset 100% of the time means you’re vulnerable to emotional manipulation and become disconnected from reality. Trump supporters also have good reason to be upset about current economic conditions, don’t they? But they’re upset at the wrong people because they’re blasted with emotion non-stop and don’t ever think about how things are.

The political leadership of Hamas are billionaires living in luxury in Qatar while their people die. The local leadership in Gaza living in underground bunkers that keep them safe while the people above them die. They use religion to justify their actions. Like all authoritarian regimes they are very good at propaganda to keep their population in line and to gain support from foreigners.

This fascist organization launched an attack on October 7, 2023 where they went into villages and murdered women and children. How upset does that make you? Apparently not that much, which is concerning. The goal of this attack was to start the war you’re seeing play out now. During that attack they took hostages to force Israel into a ground campaign. Ground campaigns in a densely populated area is known by everyone to result in the highest amount of civilian casualties. Hamas knew this, it’s what they wanted. Because they can use this to create effective propaganda.

The emotions you’re feeling is proof of the effectiveness of Hamas’s plan. They made this happen to make you sympathetic to them. And because of how effective this has been they will likely do it it again.

In a few decades time when this all happens again, you’ll be saying the same things to the younger generation as I’m saying to you now. This cycle won’t end until we have a generation that can see they’re being manipulated. Unfortunately you’re not the generation that will end the cycle of violence. Maybe Generation Z+1 will be the ones that won’t fall for the propaganda. If we survive that long.

Biden in Europe is considered full right or at least center-right.

This is talk, not facts. Yes if you’re in a bubble where everyone is talking the same way, it might feel like a fact, but that’s all just talk and feelings. In the end all of politics is just talk despite what the ideologues might tell you.

He is not a sexual predator, despite his incapacity to deny it.

Theralist needs anustart