Adrian Zenz is a right-wing christian fundamentalist, in his own words, “sent by god to destroy the CCP”. For his mission, he is ready to make up lots of crazy stuff. After he gets proven to be factually wrong or that he does not in any way have any form of scientific evidence for any of his claims, he doubles down on them. His “research” does not follow any scientifically acceptable method. For example, the figure millions of detained Uyghurs came from a sample group of 8 (eight) interviews. So even if you ignore his religious views and his political motivation in his work, the lack of scientific methods makes it unacceptable to cite him in a paper.
Lots of people put lots of effort into debunking his claims. Use a search engine and dig in!
Or use the opposite approach, thats what I did! Around 2019 when Zenz came up with his claims of the Uyghur Genocide, I was so shocked and found them so crazy and unacceptable that I really wanted to learn everything about it and find the evidence, understand whats going on. I had an unfavorable view of China (to put it mildly honestly) and was super motivated. Well… never found any evidence of genocide, cultural genocide, or anything coming close to such things, but it almost turned me into a Tankie, so always remain critical 😊
I looked up Adrian zenz as soon as I received this comment. Zealots aren’t very endearing to me, But since his studies regarding Uyghurs haven’t been disproved, I kind of let the Christianity go.
There’s definitely a cultural genocide happening in xinjiang though, their culture is being dismantled very rapidly.
Camp guards and former prisoners and free citizens of xinjiang all attest to the CCP concentration camps, that uyghurs aren’t allowed to practice their religion or speak their mother tongue.
I don’t understand how you didn’t find any evidence. Do you mean you just don’t believe any of the articles or interviews or documentaries about the Uyghur re-education camps?
This is one of the concentration camps that a BBC News team was allowed inside of:
Either you have a genuine interest in learning more and knowing what’s going on - which will require a little effort and a bit of an open mind to expand the sources you might be used to - or you check a few sites and videos that kinda confirm what you want to believe and then fill out the rest with your assumptions and prejudices.
his studies regarding Uyghurs haven’t been disapproved
Ok, they haven’t. You are interested in the matter and want to learn more about it, right? Then go read his studies, see what they consist of, and see why no one has been able to disprove the findings of Adrian Zenz.
There’s definitely a cultural genocide happening in xinjiang though, their culture is being dismantled very rapidly.
That is terrible then, and you care about it, right? Then go and learn more about it. Learn about the history of Xinjiang and how the lives of the people in that region have changed over the last few decades. Research how Uyghur culture is being dismantled very rapidly.
Find actual proof for what you want to be true.
One last thing, I really never said that there were or are no re-education camps. They played a very vital role in the war against terror. You claiming that I said they never existed, annoyed me.
Anyway, all the best.
Recommendations to start:
Super casual YouTube-Channel, often about what’s Life in Xinjiang really like. Li Jingjing 李菁菁
You claim that there is no proof for a cultural genocide against the uyghurs.
Right here: “Well… never found any evidence of genocide, cultural genocide, or anything coming close to such things”.
Above, I’ve linked proof provided by the CCP showing uyghurs not allowed to speak their language, practice their religion, and the Chinese officials in charge of that camp saying that they detained innocent uyghurs before they commit crime because they might commit a crime later.
Cultural genocide is the genocide of a culture, in case you find the term too oblique. By indefinitely detaining free and innocent people until they stop practicing their culture and begin practicing the culture approved by the CCP, the CCP is practicing cultural genocide, contrary to your claim.
Strangely(but I appreciate it) you subsequently backpedal and you even agree with me that “uyghur culture is being dismantled very rapidly.”
Yes, thank you, I agree.
I never claimed you didn’t believe in the existence of Uyghur concentration camps; I asked you how, with video and journalistic evidence of the concentration camps(where cultural genocide is occurring), do you still not believe in that evidence of cultural genocide.
*CPC (Communist Party of China is the official term)
Read my other reply first; this is part two. You claim that Zenz’s studies on Uyghurs haven’t been disproven, but this is incorrect, they are accepted because they fit a narrative. For one, Zenz has deliberately lied about China in the past, like claiming that the Chinese government was trying to suppress the fact that COVID-19 was transmissible between humans, despite China confirming this fact a day earlier. For refutations of his research, see [1] and [2]. It genuinely seems like you’re just ignorant, but maybe I’m wrong. Hope to see a reply.
I understand the points you’re trying to make, but they fall apart very quickly in light of regional, global and historical context.
I’ve read and watched all of your links, and I’m replying with regard to your requested order.
Why are the Chinese throwing specifically Uyghurs into concentration camps and destroying their culture when there are so many minorites to oppress? Three big reasons: 1) Uyghurs look radically different than han Chinese, they look middle eastern and european rather than other minority ethnicities in China. 2) 94 percent of the Chinese population lives on the east coast of China. Uyghurs, 3000 miles west and thousands of miles closer geographically to Europe and the Middle East, are uniquely positioned to open diplomatic ties with other countries, 3) historically culturally distinct from the rest of China(being Muslim and near Europe, Uyghur schools taught multiple languages from a young age). Because of this relative academic excellence at the time,(distinguishing the rest of china) xinjiang was the only province of China not completely physically dismantled by mao during his rampage against “old culture”. Uyghur education was a good example for mao to point to. Now, the CCP is violently enforcing a homogeneous culture.
Being so far away from 94 percent of the Chinese population, historically disinterested in being part of China, being culturally distinct from China, and being in a position to easily open ties with Europe and the Middle East, with a 3-thousand mile head start on the CCP, makes Xinjiang a natural third major target for a dictatorial government trying to consolidate power. China has already attacked the first and second targets, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Although Taiwanese industry, infrastructure and diplomatic ties progress beyond the CCPs control; Taiwan has their own military, a distinct culture, western ties, and are even recognized as a separate country, so the CCP does what they can to suppress and discredit Taiwan without a full-on invasion. Hong Kong has Western ties and a distinct culture, and a large, concentrated population, but no military, so the CCP has passed incredibly broad and vague retroactive “anti-terrorism” laws that allow them to forcefully invade and occupy Hong Kong and extradite any Hong Kong citizen for any reason from Hong Kong to mainland China, to be detained indefinitely without any appeal in court. How about Xinjiang citizens? Culturally and physiologically distinct from other Chinese citizens, geographically far away from the CCP, and in a position to expand their influence even as they call for independence, but no separate military, a relatively small population, and no significant ties to powerful countries. So the CCP labels them terrorists, invades them, destroys cultural buildings that define the uyghurs as obviously a different culture, throw at least 10% of the population into re-education camps(make sure the politicians and professors are among that 10%), limit their transportation and track all the rest of them.
If you look at more than just the number of ethnicities in China, it makes perfect sense why the CCP is persecuting this specific minority: for the same reasons they’re persecuting, Taiwanese and Hong Kong citizens, except the Uyghurs have less resistance capabilities.
Since you asked about the hui specifically, they are terrified of being attacked next, since there was no provocation or necessity for the concentration camps in xinjiang other than uyghur physiological and cultural difference. The hui, however, look more like Han Chinese and have not advocated independence from China, unlike the uyghurs.
As for the US interest in Xinjiang, yes, that ties directly into one of the reasons stated above the CCP is specifically attacking Uyghurs. Wilkerson explains how the CIA could destabilize the CCP through Xinjiang, but It’s just as likely that the US would keep military on the western edge of a hostile, powerful country as the US military does with other powerful countries (3000 US soldiers recently sent to the western boundary of Russian influence with directions not to engage). Not engaging, but there. Wilkerson says that Xinjiang is an easy entry point to China, which yes it is, a lot easier than anywhere on the east coast.
The energy artery is no longer as significant as Edmonds makes it out to be, with regard to energy developments and energy investments in the last decade in the east of China. She’s also agreeing that Xinjiang is an important region for the CCP with ties to other countries. That is why the CCP wants to control xinjiang completely and erase any trace of independence.
As for no cultural genocide going on, not being allowed to speak your language, forced to pledge allegiance to the CCP, not allowed to wear your own clothing, and the cultural buildings(at least 10,000 mosques so far) that have been destroyed speak louder than the lack of evidence you’re providing.
It’s fine if you don’t like the BBC, but their video is of a re-education camp detaining Uyghurs, created by China to culturally repress Xinjiang citizens, and the Chinese officials in charge of that particular camp admit the Xinjiang citizens may be detained without cause indefinitely. Whatever you think of the BBC, that’s what is being shown in that video sanctioned by the CCP of a camp sanctioned and exhibited by the CCP. Similar documentaries(often longer than the BBC News statement) are available by vice news and other news organizations.
Seems like whoever wrote that article you linked to just really hates that one BBC presenter and does nothing to discredit the actual content of the video.
As for zenz, your argument is that the cultural genocide against Uyghurs zenz claims hasn’t been disproven because his studies have been accepted. Which doesn’t address the fact that his studies have not been disproven.
I get that you don’t like Zenz, he seems bombastic, and I don’t care about him personally at all(data over tweets for me), but I don’t think that has a bearing on what the CCP is doing to the uyghurs.
Side note - what are you talking about with zenz being a day late? China announced covid-19 human transmissibility in January 2019 afaik, and that tweet is from May. Is that 5 month gap what you mean by “the day after”?
As for no cultural genocide going on, not being allowed to speak your language, forced to pledge allegiance to the CCP, not allowed to wear your own clothing, and the cultural buildings(at least 10,000 mosques so far) that have been destroyed speak louder than the lack of evidence you’re providing.
Talking about “lack of evidence” in a paragraph like this that should be loaded with links is strange. Please cite your source for the demolition of 10,000 mosques (reminding us of claims which swept Western media in 2019 only to be proven false, “wear your own clothing” (of which the only reference I can find was one of the signs of extremism being: “wearing, or compelling others to wear, burqas with face coverings” (XUAR de-extremification regulations), which is not traditional Uyghur clothing), and not being allowed to speak one’s one language (maybe a reference to the the teaching of Mandarin as a skill in VCs so that business can be done between regions and prefectures, although there is no law forbidding one from speaking Uyghur).
Why is there no mention whatsoever of the AP News article and the notes by The New Atlas I linked? Here’s another article with a lot of sources.
4: British Broadcasting Corp.]
Seems like whoever wrote that article you linked to just really hates that one BBC presenter and does nothing to discredit the actual content of the video.
The presenter is the one providing context. And sure you can watch the video on mute but I don’t think you’ll get the same picture (and you won’t get the lies about graffiti which really give the video its signature edge). The commentary is the video. You should note the Uyghur language script and instruction in the facility (with Mandarin being taught), of which you wouldn’t be aware otherwise, which calls into question your claim that Uyghurs are not allowed to speak their own language.
In your original comment linking the documentary, you said:
Above, I’ve linked proof provided by the CCP showing uyghurs not allowed to speak their language, practice their religion, and the Chinese officials in charge of that camp saying that they detained innocent uyghurs before they commit crime because they might commit a crime late… how, with video and journalistic evidence of the concentration camps(where cultural genocide is occurring), do you still not believe in that evidence of cultural genocide.
Now we’re aware that your claim that the video showed proof of not being allowed to speak one’s language was false (instead teaching Mandarin for employment opportunities with Uyghur still present). It wasn’t the “video proof”, but the commentary that convinced you of this. And where is the evidence that Uyghurs can’t practice their religion? And which concentration camps do you know of where “inmates” leave on weekends (we see this in the video)? The video shows no evidence of any of your claims. I can only assume that, contrary to your claims, you in fact didn’t read the article, as you didn’t backtrack on any of this, much less the words on prevention of crime by an official which you cited as undeniable proof of wrongdoing and cultural genocide despite the article addressing this and showing how it was misrepresented by the BBC commentator. The article I linked isn’t an additional source of information, it’s a demonstration of dishonesty by analysis that I could have repeated again in my comment, but I figured this wasn’t necessary since it had already been done. I guess if you don’t explain something twice it doesn’t get through.
Note: Why would China allow foreign press entrance into a facility in which they were supposedly performing genocide?
5: Adrian Zenz]
As for zenz, your argument is that the cultural genocide against Uyghurs zenz claims hasn’t been disproven because his studies have been accepted. Which doesn’t address the fact that his studies have not been disproven.
I think there is a misunderstanding here. I was addressing your assumption that his studies were not disproven (which was based on the fact of their acceptance by the mainstream in the West); his research had been disproven, as shown for instance in the two articles linked in my original comment. I would assume that this mistake is because you didn’t see my second reply (also indicated by the continued use of ‘CCP’ as opposed to ‘CPC’), but I only addressed Zenz in that comment, so this can’t be the case.
Your ‘side note’ is really just another mistake (also the correct date is Jan. 2020, not Jan. 2019; and I said “a day earlier”, not “the day after”). The tweet I linked is from a third party comparing Zenz’s tweet (Jan. 21, 2020) to a NYT headline (Jan. 20, 2020). The third party tweet is from May, but the “day earlier” comment refers to the actual content: Zenz’s tweet vs. the NYT article, of which the latter appeared a day before the former. So no, this is not the “five month gap” I meant by “a day earlier.”
*This response is very long so it will be split into two parts: Part 1 (1-2) and Part 2 (3-5)
PART 1
1: Targeting]
I don’t want to get into some weird analysis of ethnicity but there are many diverse ethnic groups in China, with several looking especially different from the Han ethnic group.
This is an interesting point, and will be discussed in section 2
Xinjiang was not the only area to have not been completely physically dismantled by the GPCR; we can critique the idealist, discriminatory, and anti-democratic features of the GPCR without engaging in complete nonsense.
China has already attacked the first and second targets, Taiwan and Hong Kong… Taiwan has their own military, a distinct culture, western ties, and are even recognized as a separate country, so the CCP does what they can to suppress and discredit Taiwan without a full-on invasion.
Recognized as a separate country by whom? The UN has recognized Taiwan as part of China since General Assembly Resolution 2758 (1971). Only 13 countries recognize Taiwan as a separate country, with neither the U.S. nor U.K. occupying that list. “臺灣民眾統獨立場趨勢分佈”, conducted by Taiwan’s National Chengchi University, an explicitly anti-CPC source, in 2022, showed the following results with regards to the perspective of Taiwanese citizens on independence and reunification: (Status Quo as Autonomous Part of China and Complete Unification Compiled [part of PRC] : 63.4%) (General Support for Independence Including Status Quo Moving Towards Independence [not part of PRC]: 30.3%) (Non-Response: 6.3%).
Hong Kong has Western ties and a distinct culture, and a large, concentrated population, but no military, so the CCP has passed incredibly broad and vague retroactive “anti-terrorism” laws that allow them to forcefully invade and occupy Hong Kong and extradite any Hong Kong citizen for any reason from Hong Kong to mainland China, to be detained indefinitely without any appeal in court.
Hong Kong has a large amount of autonomy; it isn’t true that Hong Kong citizens can be extradited for any reason; stop claiming things without sources. You can’t invade yourself, nor can you occupy yourself; this is ridiculous (as is the notion that the CPC could pass such laws, but I wouldn’t expect an understanding of China’s govt. structure). The anti-terrorism laws were because Hong Kong protestors shot a dude and set another on fire in opposition to an extradition bill specifically proposed because a man murdered a pregnant woman in one part of China and fled to Hong Kong (from which he could not be charged or extradited, which is ridiculous).
So the CCP labels them terrorists, invades them, destroys cultural buildings that define the uyghurs as obviously a different culture, throw at least 10% of the population into re-education camps(make sure the politicians and professors are among that 10%), limit their transportation and track all the rest of them.
The CPC never argued that all Uyghurs were terrorists; are we seriously going to deny the epidemic of terrorism in Xinjiang and from Xinjiang (ex. Ürümqi, July 2009; Hotan, July 2011; Piqan/Shanshan, June 2013; Yunnan, March 2014; Ürümqi, May 2014; Kashgar, July 2014; Yakan/Shache, November 2014; Bay, September 2015; Karakax/Moyu, December 2016)? I’d like a citation for the 10% number, you can’t just claim things that immense with no citations. I won’t misrepresent your point by assuming a source.
Since you asked about the hui specifically, they are terrified of being attacked next, since there was no provocation or necessity for the concentration camps in xinjiang other than uyghur physiological and cultural difference.
Evidence? It’s insane to claim to know how a group of millions is feeling without a survey or some sort of proof.
2: Strategy]
As for the US interest in Xinjiang, yes, that ties directly into one of the reasons stated above the CCP is specifically attacking Uyghurs. Wilkerson explains how the CIA could destabilize the CCP through Xinjiang, but It’s just as likely that the US would keep military on the western edge of a hostile, powerful country as the US military does with other powerful countries (3000 US soldiers recently sent to the western boundary of Russian influence with directions not to engage). Not engaging, but there. Wilkerson says that Xinjiang is an easy entry point to China, which yes it is, a lot easier than anywhere on the east coast.
It’s really annoying when you just ignore points, for instance me saying “see Paul Williams’ Operation Gladio, p. 271 for further evidence of U.S. promotion of terrorism and unrest in Xinjiang)”, which completely negates your point that the addition of Wilkerson’s talk is speculative. Sibel Edmonds also stated:
…without the Cold War excuse our foreign policymakers had a real hard time justifying our joint operations and terrorism schemes in the resource-rich ex Soviet states with these same groups, so they made sure they kept their policies unwritten and unspoken, and considering their grip on the mainstream media, largely unreported. Now what would your response be if I were to say on the record, and, if required, under oath: ‘Between 1996 and 2002, we, the United States, planned, financed, and helped execute every major terrorist incident by Chechen rebels (and the Mujahideen) against Russia. Between 1996 and 2002, we, the United States, planned, financed, and helped execute every single uprising and terror related scheme in Xinjiang (aka East Turkistan and Uyghurstan)’
Xinjiang is an easy entry point for the U.S. (polysemous point), but you don’t consider that they already have entered, that there is a legitimate problem with terrorism in the region, and that this is being dealt with does not prove cultural genocide.
And you can consult this talk on the war in Afghanistan by Lawrence Wilkerson, Chief of Staff to former Secretary of State Colin Powell and retired US Army Colonel, where it is admitted that a strategic reason for continued U.S. presence in Afghanistan is for the use of the Uyghur population in that nation as a bulwark against China (see Paul Williams’ Operation Gladio, p. 271 for further evidence of U.S. promotion of terrorism and unrest in Xinjiang).
The very premise of “cultural genocide” of Uyghurs is strange when China has roughly 54 other ethnic groups which have been relatively unscathed, including other Muslim-majority ethnic groups such as the Hui ethnic group, which is larger than the Uyghur population. What could be the reason for this?
First source in the executive summary?
ADRIAN ZENZ
Tells you everything you need to know about this “research paper” 🥱
Its exhausting to see one guy as the focal point of all anti-China criticism.
It just feels like getting all your news about Joe Biden from The Daily Caller.
Apparently not me. Can you elaborate?
Adrian Zenz is a right-wing christian fundamentalist, in his own words, “sent by god to destroy the CCP”. For his mission, he is ready to make up lots of crazy stuff. After he gets proven to be factually wrong or that he does not in any way have any form of scientific evidence for any of his claims, he doubles down on them. His “research” does not follow any scientifically acceptable method. For example, the figure millions of detained Uyghurs came from a sample group of 8 (eight) interviews. So even if you ignore his religious views and his political motivation in his work, the lack of scientific methods makes it unacceptable to cite him in a paper.
Lots of people put lots of effort into debunking his claims. Use a search engine and dig in!
Or use the opposite approach, thats what I did! Around 2019 when Zenz came up with his claims of the Uyghur Genocide, I was so shocked and found them so crazy and unacceptable that I really wanted to learn everything about it and find the evidence, understand whats going on. I had an unfavorable view of China (to put it mildly honestly) and was super motivated. Well… never found any evidence of genocide, cultural genocide, or anything coming close to such things, but it almost turned me into a Tankie, so always remain critical 😊
I looked up Adrian zenz as soon as I received this comment. Zealots aren’t very endearing to me, But since his studies regarding Uyghurs haven’t been disproved, I kind of let the Christianity go.
There’s definitely a cultural genocide happening in xinjiang though, their culture is being dismantled very rapidly.
Camp guards and former prisoners and free citizens of xinjiang all attest to the CCP concentration camps, that uyghurs aren’t allowed to practice their religion or speak their mother tongue.
I don’t understand how you didn’t find any evidence. Do you mean you just don’t believe any of the articles or interviews or documentaries about the Uyghur re-education camps?
This is one of the concentration camps that a BBC News team was allowed inside of:
https://youtu.be/WmId2ZP3h0c
Either you have a genuine interest in learning more and knowing what’s going on - which will require a little effort and a bit of an open mind to expand the sources you might be used to - or you check a few sites and videos that kinda confirm what you want to believe and then fill out the rest with your assumptions and prejudices.
Ok, they haven’t. You are interested in the matter and want to learn more about it, right? Then go read his studies, see what they consist of, and see why no one has been able to disprove the findings of Adrian Zenz.
That is terrible then, and you care about it, right? Then go and learn more about it. Learn about the history of Xinjiang and how the lives of the people in that region have changed over the last few decades. Research how Uyghur culture is being dismantled very rapidly.
Find actual proof for what you want to be true.
One last thing, I really never said that there were or are no re-education camps. They played a very vital role in the war against terror. You claiming that I said they never existed, annoyed me.
Anyway, all the best.
Recommendations to start:
You claim that there is no proof for a cultural genocide against the uyghurs.
Right here: “Well… never found any evidence of genocide, cultural genocide, or anything coming close to such things”.
Above, I’ve linked proof provided by the CCP showing uyghurs not allowed to speak their language, practice their religion, and the Chinese officials in charge of that camp saying that they detained innocent uyghurs before they commit crime because they might commit a crime later.
Cultural genocide is the genocide of a culture, in case you find the term too oblique. By indefinitely detaining free and innocent people until they stop practicing their culture and begin practicing the culture approved by the CCP, the CCP is practicing cultural genocide, contrary to your claim.
Strangely(but I appreciate it) you subsequently backpedal and you even agree with me that “uyghur culture is being dismantled very rapidly.”
Yes, thank you, I agree.
I never claimed you didn’t believe in the existence of Uyghur concentration camps; I asked you how, with video and journalistic evidence of the concentration camps(where cultural genocide is occurring), do you still not believe in that evidence of cultural genocide.
*CPC (Communist Party of China is the official term)
Read my other reply first; this is part two. You claim that Zenz’s studies on Uyghurs haven’t been disproven, but this is incorrect, they are accepted because they fit a narrative. For one, Zenz has deliberately lied about China in the past, like claiming that the Chinese government was trying to suppress the fact that COVID-19 was transmissible between humans, despite China confirming this fact a day earlier. For refutations of his research, see [1] and [2]. It genuinely seems like you’re just ignorant, but maybe I’m wrong. Hope to see a reply.
I understand the points you’re trying to make, but they fall apart very quickly in light of regional, global and historical context.
I’ve read and watched all of your links, and I’m replying with regard to your requested order.
Why are the Chinese throwing specifically Uyghurs into concentration camps and destroying their culture when there are so many minorites to oppress? Three big reasons: 1) Uyghurs look radically different than han Chinese, they look middle eastern and european rather than other minority ethnicities in China. 2) 94 percent of the Chinese population lives on the east coast of China. Uyghurs, 3000 miles west and thousands of miles closer geographically to Europe and the Middle East, are uniquely positioned to open diplomatic ties with other countries, 3) historically culturally distinct from the rest of China(being Muslim and near Europe, Uyghur schools taught multiple languages from a young age). Because of this relative academic excellence at the time,(distinguishing the rest of china) xinjiang was the only province of China not completely physically dismantled by mao during his rampage against “old culture”. Uyghur education was a good example for mao to point to. Now, the CCP is violently enforcing a homogeneous culture.
Being so far away from 94 percent of the Chinese population, historically disinterested in being part of China, being culturally distinct from China, and being in a position to easily open ties with Europe and the Middle East, with a 3-thousand mile head start on the CCP, makes Xinjiang a natural third major target for a dictatorial government trying to consolidate power. China has already attacked the first and second targets, Taiwan and Hong Kong. Although Taiwanese industry, infrastructure and diplomatic ties progress beyond the CCPs control; Taiwan has their own military, a distinct culture, western ties, and are even recognized as a separate country, so the CCP does what they can to suppress and discredit Taiwan without a full-on invasion. Hong Kong has Western ties and a distinct culture, and a large, concentrated population, but no military, so the CCP has passed incredibly broad and vague retroactive “anti-terrorism” laws that allow them to forcefully invade and occupy Hong Kong and extradite any Hong Kong citizen for any reason from Hong Kong to mainland China, to be detained indefinitely without any appeal in court. How about Xinjiang citizens? Culturally and physiologically distinct from other Chinese citizens, geographically far away from the CCP, and in a position to expand their influence even as they call for independence, but no separate military, a relatively small population, and no significant ties to powerful countries. So the CCP labels them terrorists, invades them, destroys cultural buildings that define the uyghurs as obviously a different culture, throw at least 10% of the population into re-education camps(make sure the politicians and professors are among that 10%), limit their transportation and track all the rest of them.
If you look at more than just the number of ethnicities in China, it makes perfect sense why the CCP is persecuting this specific minority: for the same reasons they’re persecuting, Taiwanese and Hong Kong citizens, except the Uyghurs have less resistance capabilities.
Since you asked about the hui specifically, they are terrified of being attacked next, since there was no provocation or necessity for the concentration camps in xinjiang other than uyghur physiological and cultural difference. The hui, however, look more like Han Chinese and have not advocated independence from China, unlike the uyghurs.
As for the US interest in Xinjiang, yes, that ties directly into one of the reasons stated above the CCP is specifically attacking Uyghurs. Wilkerson explains how the CIA could destabilize the CCP through Xinjiang, but It’s just as likely that the US would keep military on the western edge of a hostile, powerful country as the US military does with other powerful countries (3000 US soldiers recently sent to the western boundary of Russian influence with directions not to engage). Not engaging, but there. Wilkerson says that Xinjiang is an easy entry point to China, which yes it is, a lot easier than anywhere on the east coast.
The energy artery is no longer as significant as Edmonds makes it out to be, with regard to energy developments and energy investments in the last decade in the east of China. She’s also agreeing that Xinjiang is an important region for the CCP with ties to other countries. That is why the CCP wants to control xinjiang completely and erase any trace of independence.
As for no cultural genocide going on, not being allowed to speak your language, forced to pledge allegiance to the CCP, not allowed to wear your own clothing, and the cultural buildings(at least 10,000 mosques so far) that have been destroyed speak louder than the lack of evidence you’re providing.
It’s fine if you don’t like the BBC, but their video is of a re-education camp detaining Uyghurs, created by China to culturally repress Xinjiang citizens, and the Chinese officials in charge of that particular camp admit the Xinjiang citizens may be detained without cause indefinitely. Whatever you think of the BBC, that’s what is being shown in that video sanctioned by the CCP of a camp sanctioned and exhibited by the CCP. Similar documentaries(often longer than the BBC News statement) are available by vice news and other news organizations.
Seems like whoever wrote that article you linked to just really hates that one BBC presenter and does nothing to discredit the actual content of the video.
As for zenz, your argument is that the cultural genocide against Uyghurs zenz claims hasn’t been disproven because his studies have been accepted. Which doesn’t address the fact that his studies have not been disproven.
I get that you don’t like Zenz, he seems bombastic, and I don’t care about him personally at all(data over tweets for me), but I don’t think that has a bearing on what the CCP is doing to the uyghurs.
Side note - what are you talking about with zenz being a day late? China announced covid-19 human transmissibility in January 2019 afaik, and that tweet is from May. Is that 5 month gap what you mean by “the day after”?
PART 2
3: Evidence]
Talking about “lack of evidence” in a paragraph like this that should be loaded with links is strange. Please cite your source for the demolition of 10,000 mosques (reminding us of claims which swept Western media in 2019 only to be proven false, “wear your own clothing” (of which the only reference I can find was one of the signs of extremism being: “wearing, or compelling others to wear, burqas with face coverings” (XUAR de-extremification regulations), which is not traditional Uyghur clothing), and not being allowed to speak one’s one language (maybe a reference to the the teaching of Mandarin as a skill in VCs so that business can be done between regions and prefectures, although there is no law forbidding one from speaking Uyghur).
Why is there no mention whatsoever of the AP News article and the notes by The New Atlas I linked? Here’s another article with a lot of sources.
4: British Broadcasting Corp.]
The presenter is the one providing context. And sure you can watch the video on mute but I don’t think you’ll get the same picture (and you won’t get the lies about graffiti which really give the video its signature edge). The commentary is the video. You should note the Uyghur language script and instruction in the facility (with Mandarin being taught), of which you wouldn’t be aware otherwise, which calls into question your claim that Uyghurs are not allowed to speak their own language.
In your original comment linking the documentary, you said:
Now we’re aware that your claim that the video showed proof of not being allowed to speak one’s language was false (instead teaching Mandarin for employment opportunities with Uyghur still present). It wasn’t the “video proof”, but the commentary that convinced you of this. And where is the evidence that Uyghurs can’t practice their religion? And which concentration camps do you know of where “inmates” leave on weekends (we see this in the video)? The video shows no evidence of any of your claims. I can only assume that, contrary to your claims, you in fact didn’t read the article, as you didn’t backtrack on any of this, much less the words on prevention of crime by an official which you cited as undeniable proof of wrongdoing and cultural genocide despite the article addressing this and showing how it was misrepresented by the BBC commentator. The article I linked isn’t an additional source of information, it’s a demonstration of dishonesty by analysis that I could have repeated again in my comment, but I figured this wasn’t necessary since it had already been done. I guess if you don’t explain something twice it doesn’t get through.
Note: Why would China allow foreign press entrance into a facility in which they were supposedly performing genocide?
5: Adrian Zenz]
I think there is a misunderstanding here. I was addressing your assumption that his studies were not disproven (which was based on the fact of their acceptance by the mainstream in the West); his research had been disproven, as shown for instance in the two articles linked in my original comment. I would assume that this mistake is because you didn’t see my second reply (also indicated by the continued use of ‘CCP’ as opposed to ‘CPC’), but I only addressed Zenz in that comment, so this can’t be the case.
Your ‘side note’ is really just another mistake (also the correct date is Jan. 2020, not Jan. 2019; and I said “a day earlier”, not “the day after”). The tweet I linked is from a third party comparing Zenz’s tweet (Jan. 21, 2020) to a NYT headline (Jan. 20, 2020). The third party tweet is from May, but the “day earlier” comment refers to the actual content: Zenz’s tweet vs. the NYT article, of which the latter appeared a day before the former. So no, this is not the “five month gap” I meant by “a day earlier.”
*This response is very long so it will be split into two parts: Part 1 (1-2) and Part 2 (3-5)
PART 1
1: Targeting]
Recognized as a separate country by whom? The UN has recognized Taiwan as part of China since General Assembly Resolution 2758 (1971). Only 13 countries recognize Taiwan as a separate country, with neither the U.S. nor U.K. occupying that list. “臺灣民眾統獨立場趨勢分佈”, conducted by Taiwan’s National Chengchi University, an explicitly anti-CPC source, in 2022, showed the following results with regards to the perspective of Taiwanese citizens on independence and reunification: (Status Quo as Autonomous Part of China and Complete Unification Compiled [part of PRC] : 63.4%) (General Support for Independence Including Status Quo Moving Towards Independence [not part of PRC]: 30.3%) (Non-Response: 6.3%).
Hong Kong has a large amount of autonomy; it isn’t true that Hong Kong citizens can be extradited for any reason; stop claiming things without sources. You can’t invade yourself, nor can you occupy yourself; this is ridiculous (as is the notion that the CPC could pass such laws, but I wouldn’t expect an understanding of China’s govt. structure). The anti-terrorism laws were because Hong Kong protestors shot a dude and set another on fire in opposition to an extradition bill specifically proposed because a man murdered a pregnant woman in one part of China and fled to Hong Kong (from which he could not be charged or extradited, which is ridiculous).
The CPC never argued that all Uyghurs were terrorists; are we seriously going to deny the epidemic of terrorism in Xinjiang and from Xinjiang (ex. Ürümqi, July 2009; Hotan, July 2011; Piqan/Shanshan, June 2013; Yunnan, March 2014; Ürümqi, May 2014; Kashgar, July 2014; Yakan/Shache, November 2014; Bay, September 2015; Karakax/Moyu, December 2016)? I’d like a citation for the 10% number, you can’t just claim things that immense with no citations. I won’t misrepresent your point by assuming a source.
Evidence? It’s insane to claim to know how a group of millions is feeling without a survey or some sort of proof.
2: Strategy]
It’s really annoying when you just ignore points, for instance me saying “see Paul Williams’ Operation Gladio, p. 271 for further evidence of U.S. promotion of terrorism and unrest in Xinjiang)”, which completely negates your point that the addition of Wilkerson’s talk is speculative. Sibel Edmonds also stated:
Xinjiang is an easy entry point for the U.S. (polysemous point), but you don’t consider that they already have entered, that there is a legitimate problem with terrorism in the region, and that this is being dealt with does not prove cultural genocide.
The BBC video you linked has already been disproven. We also know that the BBC is by no means “journalistic”, it is the propaganda arm of the British state.
On “cultural genocide”, here is an AP News article (mainstream) documenting their visit to Xinjiang as soon as it was open for tourism, with the conclusion reached that the repression ended before they arrived (2021)—the article of course still holds on to some of the Western pretenses, with numerous falsehoods still being spread with the attempt of holding onto the cultural genocide myth.
And here is Sibel Edmonds, a former interpreter with the FBI, talking about the U.S.’s plan for Xinjiang in 2015 (crackdown began in 2017): “Xinjiang is the entry artery of energy. We want to, gradually and internally, play the gender card and the race card. For that part of the world, we want to play the minority without land. We say we are going to help them and they are being oppressed, Chinese are gunning them down and torturing them.”
And you can consult this talk on the war in Afghanistan by Lawrence Wilkerson, Chief of Staff to former Secretary of State Colin Powell and retired US Army Colonel, where it is admitted that a strategic reason for continued U.S. presence in Afghanistan is for the use of the Uyghur population in that nation as a bulwark against China (see Paul Williams’ Operation Gladio, p. 271 for further evidence of U.S. promotion of terrorism and unrest in Xinjiang).
The very premise of “cultural genocide” of Uyghurs is strange when China has roughly 54 other ethnic groups which have been relatively unscathed, including other Muslim-majority ethnic groups such as the Hui ethnic group, which is larger than the Uyghur population. What could be the reason for this?