Not the core issue. My car does not run on Diesel, but I would not have any issues dragging such a caravan around. That is perfectly normal in Europe.
Why the Americans think one would need a thick fat pickup or truck just to pull a caravan is beyond me. Maybe it is just smart marketing to make people buy even bigger cars than they ever need.
A quick search shows a civic can tow 1,100 lbs. A dodge caravan can tow 3,600 lbs. An F-150 tows 14,000 lbs.
Now someone may have a legitimate reason to need to tow thousands of pounds, such as someone who moves horses around.
But for normal use, my tool trailer comes in under 1,000kg (2,200 lbs); maybe someone working in a mountainous area would need more power? Most likely marketing.
It’s like choosing to drive a tractor around. Those F150 are great machines in circumstances where they are needed, but to go food shopping, you don’t need that. I have a RAV4 hybrid (my work requires a large trunk space, and I have kids and a dog) and I get 50mpg and people are amazed compared to 12mpg of their truck. Go figure.
Yep. I’ve got a SEAT Alhambra because I need trunk space, too - and it’s a nice trunk space, easy to use. And I can tow 1800kg, despite it being not a diesel.
I haul more stuff with my little 4x8 utility trailer and small hybrid than most of the big F150 people around me. I routinely get full loads of compost from the municipal dump.
My parents used to have a 2008 dodge Durango that they were told would be good enough to haul their 3500 lb camper. (Needed 7 seats for 5 kids + them)
This thing did not do well hauling the camper. It struggled going up the mountains where we vacationed and it struggled just as bad coming back down because the brakes couldn’t handle the dead weight.
Now us kids have grown up and moved out and they got an F150 that hauls their new camper, about the same weight (3700 lb) like it’s not even back there.
I think there’s a lot more to it than how much weight the car can actually pull. But I couldn’t say since I’m not that knowledgeable.
I’ve seen plenty of small “Euro-sized” cars pull fully loaded horse trailers, so I suspect weight is not much of an issue. You need to get power on the road, and for that bulkyness of the frame is hardly the main factor.
Are they? As caravans are quite popular in Europe, I can’t imagine we are missing something in a lighter caravan, so who do Americans have in theirs that makes the heavier?
From a quick look at an store for caravans a bit back it seems like the American caravans are much longer and have expanding sides. Basically you would need a lorry permit in Europe to be allowed to pull one of those.
So they don’t really look like the ones that are intended to be left in place.
The lightest of these you might be allowed to drive in Sweden with a standard license but most would require an extended license for heavy load at the least.
I’d still consider these not “caravans” but “mobile homes”. That’s some monsters I’d expect to be hauled around by film crews and circuses for permanent living on the move.
It’s not even smart marketing, it’s dishonest business practice. Consider that trucks and large SUVs are the most profitable vehicle, next that salesmen and marketers often sell those vehicles on towing capacity, and finally consider that many vehicles in North America don’t have official towing ratings whereas they do have ratings in Europe.
Car companies refuse to get tow ratings (which in many jurisdictions , or with many insurance.companies, cannot be insured to tow) in North America for perfectly fine smaller vehicles to hustle us into bigger more profitable vehicles, the health of our cities , climate, people and wallets be damned.
It’s one of the many ways manufacturers perpetuate toxic car culture and line their own pockets.
That’s about to change. After finding out the vast minority, if not all, car manufacturer were found cheating emissions tests, diesel car usage has been limited and production stopped, or will stop in the near future.
No. Simply that Volkswagen, then another company was caught, then they went after all of them and they all admitted before they could look into each individual company.
Basically all of them have cheated. You needed good emission test results, but without having a miracle idea that evaded everyone else in the business you simply had no competitive results without cheating. That’s physics, and physics is a very hard and unforgiving ruler.
![[image] Since many people seem to believe you can't tow with cars, here's roughly what dutch people end up doing on vacation.](https://feddit.de/pictrs/image/ea1db421-ccea-4e3d-af37-aec9b3e62de4.jpeg){kind=link}
I agree but diesel cars are much more common in Europe and they have better towing capacity due to higher torque.
Not the core issue. My car does not run on Diesel, but I would not have any issues dragging such a caravan around. That is perfectly normal in Europe.
Why the Americans think one would need a thick fat pickup or truck just to pull a caravan is beyond me. Maybe it is just smart marketing to make people buy even bigger cars than they ever need.
A quick search shows a civic can tow 1,100 lbs. A dodge caravan can tow 3,600 lbs. An F-150 tows 14,000 lbs.
Now someone may have a legitimate reason to need to tow thousands of pounds, such as someone who moves horses around.
But for normal use, my tool trailer comes in under 1,000kg (2,200 lbs); maybe someone working in a mountainous area would need more power? Most likely marketing.
It’s like choosing to drive a tractor around. Those F150 are great machines in circumstances where they are needed, but to go food shopping, you don’t need that. I have a RAV4 hybrid (my work requires a large trunk space, and I have kids and a dog) and I get 50mpg and people are amazed compared to 12mpg of their truck. Go figure.
Yep. I’ve got a SEAT Alhambra because I need trunk space, too - and it’s a nice trunk space, easy to use. And I can tow 1800kg, despite it being not a diesel.
I haul more stuff with my little 4x8 utility trailer and small hybrid than most of the big F150 people around me. I routinely get full loads of compost from the municipal dump.
My parents used to have a 2008 dodge Durango that they were told would be good enough to haul their 3500 lb camper. (Needed 7 seats for 5 kids + them)
This thing did not do well hauling the camper. It struggled going up the mountains where we vacationed and it struggled just as bad coming back down because the brakes couldn’t handle the dead weight.
Now us kids have grown up and moved out and they got an F150 that hauls their new camper, about the same weight (3700 lb) like it’s not even back there.
I think there’s a lot more to it than how much weight the car can actually pull. But I couldn’t say since I’m not that knowledgeable.
The caravans in Europe are much lighter than the trailers in North America.
I’ve seen plenty of small “Euro-sized” cars pull fully loaded horse trailers, so I suspect weight is not much of an issue. You need to get power on the road, and for that bulkyness of the frame is hardly the main factor.
Are they? As caravans are quite popular in Europe, I can’t imagine we are missing something in a lighter caravan, so who do Americans have in theirs that makes the heavier?
From a quick look at an store for caravans a bit back it seems like the American caravans are much longer and have expanding sides. Basically you would need a lorry permit in Europe to be allowed to pull one of those.
Many of those are not really intended for travel, but as permanent housing. See also: Trailer Park.
It was caravans in this style:
https://usacaravans.nl/stock?token=4nplMHTi4fpWnU0C1uGPxmoGQzV6M6YEKi4xsZO1&vehicle_type[]=travel-trailer
So they don’t really look like the ones that are intended to be left in place.
The lightest of these you might be allowed to drive in Sweden with a standard license but most would require an extended license for heavy load at the least.
I’d still consider these not “caravans” but “mobile homes”. That’s some monsters I’d expect to be hauled around by film crews and circuses for permanent living on the move.
It’s not even smart marketing, it’s dishonest business practice. Consider that trucks and large SUVs are the most profitable vehicle, next that salesmen and marketers often sell those vehicles on towing capacity, and finally consider that many vehicles in North America don’t have official towing ratings whereas they do have ratings in Europe. Car companies refuse to get tow ratings (which in many jurisdictions , or with many insurance.companies, cannot be insured to tow) in North America for perfectly fine smaller vehicles to hustle us into bigger more profitable vehicles, the health of our cities , climate, people and wallets be damned.
It’s one of the many ways manufacturers perpetuate toxic car culture and line their own pockets.
Well our Rv are way larger then that most of the time. That’s why the most popular models are self mobile
Have you ever seen those Atros-based RV’s that I’ve seen here in Europe?
That’s about to change. After finding out the vast minority, if not all, car manufacturer were found cheating emissions tests, diesel car usage has been limited and production stopped, or will stop in the near future.
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They were all basically at it, it’s the only way the emissions and performance numbers could be hit.
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Many have been caught. Not all of them have made a big deal about it.
You simply cannot build a compliant engine without cheating. The fight has gone to the courts to find out what kind of cheating is permissible…
No. Simply that Volkswagen, then another company was caught, then they went after all of them and they all admitted before they could look into each individual company.
Basically all of them have cheated. You needed good emission test results, but without having a miracle idea that evaded everyone else in the business you simply had no competitive results without cheating. That’s physics, and physics is a very hard and unforgiving ruler.