Reminds me of https://xkcd.com/1357/
Alt text there:
I can’t remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you’re saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it’s not literally illegal to express.
I totally agree, it’s like calling your opponent bot, voids a lot of what you have to say
it’s like calling your opponent bot, voids a lot of what you have to say
That’s not quite the same. When calling someone a bot, or nazi, or any other group, you are more explicitly saying " I see zero value in arguing with you and expect that you will only be arguing in bad faith, so I am not going to humor you", and also serves as an at least attempted black mark.
It’s overall just a tactic to end an argument sucinctly, by trying to say “this argument has run its course, I am cutting it off here”
Every group does it. communists call people libs or nazis, leftists call people tankies or nazis or zionists, liberals call people hippies, nazis, commies, anarchists, etc… and conservatives call people by every word in the book.
Lenin straight up says that in the “freedom of criticism” section of “what is to be done”
Exactly. I’ve often said you’re free to speak, but you’re also free to suffer the consequences of doing so. We don’t have to silently suffer the bullshit coming from everyone else’s mouths.
And you’re not necessarily free to speak, depending on what you’re saying and where you’re saying it. As the comic says, “free speech” refers to consequences from the government, not anyone else.
Very true. Try screaming “FIRE!!!” in a crowded theater. It doesn’t really go down too well.
It is worth noting - there is a moral right to free expression. Laws can only reflect that.
Do you want to post it? This one is very good
There’s a lot of irony to this comic being posted on .ml, given the current discussion about censorship issues on this instance
.world posting about censorship when they preemptively censor any discussion about piracy is hilarious.
They were never even warned by authorities, one of the admins is paranoid and loves intellectual property.
Reading that post, the OP linked an unsourced Imgur album with blatant lies like “10,000 people were incinerated and hosed down drains” spliced between actual photos of the protest is fucking wild. The 10,000 figure was reported once then immediately retracted, the fact that OP was posting blatant propaganda as fact was conveniently left out as “tankie censorship”.
Let’s put that into perspective: US intelligence officially puts the number below 900. The OP was saying it’s over 10,000. It’s an order of magnitude above the 3 letter agencies of the US.
Lmao those fucking losers “preemptively” defederated from hexbear, every one of those hypocritical libs can eat my ass
Dude, .world defederated from lemmygrad and Hexbear. They are the ones who have a censorship problem
Have you read through the thread? Tons of examples of admin abuse. I fully expect to cop another ban for this comment thread soon.
Also, I would disagree with calling defederation ‘censorship’. Nobody was prevented from speaking up. Refusal to engage with somebody you disagree with is not censorship.
Preventing people from interacting with whole instances is the ultimate form of censorship. Deleting comments is nothing compared to literally deleting all the users from one instance.
Nothing is stopping anyone from interacting with other instances. Just not here is all.
The ones that are defederated cannot interact with the ones they defederated from.
I’m aware. Are you unable to set up another account there somehow?
You can always get an account on an instance you can’t see from your main
Yeah, so .world should stop complaining about censorship when they are the #1 censorship instance.
Well yeah, but it stops people on other instances seeing deliberately biased comment sections. Effectively disallowing discussion about China bad and other issues on many major posts. If you defederate it forces people to make new posts and not use the compromised ones.
It’s like if we had an alt-right instance regularly getting on the front page, then banning LGBTQ+ discussion on any of those posts, and only allowing bigoted opinions through
I support .world defederating from whoever they wish, same as I support .ml running their own instance the way they want to run it.
Clearly goes both ways.
It must be cathartic to make cartoons about an argument you want to have where the other person is silenced by your point. Most of the time, the guy on the left in this cartoon would continue to argue and reject everything you say.
As evidence, watch a video of anyone arguing with MTG.
If it were a true conversation then it would have had to have been a 6 square comic strip instead and the last two squares would have been him not shutting up and a thought bubble by the intelligent one thinking he should have just decked the idiot instead of trying to reason with him.
Or Dawkins gradually giving up on Wendy whats-her-face.
‘But where is the evidence?’
‘This is the evidence. This is what evidence looks like. This is how evidence works. Do you see?’
‘Yes, but where is the evidence?’
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
I know lol. The point was that the mods here (maybe including OP?) here don’t seem overly concerned about freedom of speech in general, not just in the specific case in the comic (which I do agree is not really a speech issue). So this comic is a bit of a straw man in that larger context.
The irony that this was removed lmao
Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: Spam or AbuseProtip: check who the mods are before reporting.
You can’t criticise something cause a mod posted it?
no, but this specific report is obviously made in bad faith and expect the mods to just blindly remove something just because a report exists.
Many reports are either “Spam or Abuse” or “Breaks Community Rules,” without further elaboration. Often, like in this case, they are not compelling arguments. We’re not swayed by lazy, generic crybullying. In fact it may earn one a temp ban.
Understandable :)
Makes sense
“Free speech is the right to yell ‘theater’ in a crowded fire.”
- “An old yippie proverb” (I think that was the attribution? This came from Abby Hoffman’s Steal This Book.)
Freedom of Speech != Obligation to Listen
He seems to be on board by the last panel, lol
Sonic is always open to learning.
Removed by mod
I respect the sentiment, but I recently read “Exiting the Vampire Castle” by Mark Fisher and he makes some good points for why callout culture is, shall we say, “less than productive” in some situations.
calling out actually bigoted shit and the purity cult that fisher described in the essay are two different things
Really? Are you saying this in reference to the essay of his that starts with:
‘Left-wing’ Twitter can often be a miserable, dispiriting zone. Earlier this year, there were some high-profile twitterstorms, in which particular left-identifying figures were ‘called out’ and condemned. What these figures had said was sometimes objectionable; but nevertheless, the way in which they were personally vilified and hounded left a horrible residue: the stench of bad conscience and witch-hunting moralism.
Because if you are, then I guess you didn’t read the article, huh?
‘Free speech means you can’t say that to me!’ is a succinct demonstration of how some people don’t mean things when they say words.
i’ll never take away your freedom of speech, bigoted guy, i love dunking on idiots
you are just frustrated that you can’t say it without any pushback, because your parents didn’t love you enough to raise you and teach you emotional regulation (or anything else worthwhile)
I like the noses
I have never seen this situation happen
Congratulations.
