I can recommend readsettlers.org for an in-depth view at race-relations over the centuries.
The gist is that race is defined by an ingroup and is pretty flexible depending on who they consider to be part. Irish people weren’t in when they were an economic threat to the other laborers. Now they part of the higher laborclass so they are “in”. So depending on the relation of the privileged laborclass to a particular nation that nation might be considered white or not. Exceptions and ifs and buts apply liberally ofcourse.
Completely agree. Also, as an ethnic group of immigrants becomes “Americanized” by having children the cultural differences start to become less pronounced so it’s that much easier for them to be included in the default and considered “white”. It would be really nice if more people could realize that race is just a social construct that only has power because we believe it. We’re all pink on the inside.
While it isn’t exclusively about America the book Caste discusses how “race” plays into social strata. Specifically the chunk that discusses the Indian caste system and how it isn’t exclusively based on skin color. It shows how the interpretation of “race” is a lot more flexible than racists would have you believe
Probably a dumb question but I am black irish with red hair. Would the racists of yester year attack me?
That’s kind of the point she makes, race isn’t really about it. It’s about creating social structures to have an oppressed class and a ruling class. It has more to do with the circumstances of your birth (which does typically highly correlate with your class) than the “distinctions”. Racism has no logical backing, so expecting it to follow logical rules is a fallacy
Dude. You told me you were black.
Um I am what is the big deal?
No big deal, but the terminology is used in a way I’ve never seen before, and it made me confused.
See, depending on whether you’re in the US, or Ireland, the term “black Irish” has different meanings.
In the US, Irish immigrants used the term to refer to Irish people with dark hair, eyes, and complexion, but that were still not African-American. Part of my family is black Irish in that sense. There’s a lot of myth behind that, with various explanations of how and why that set of features came to be, including spanish settlement, but it wasn’t used for folks with African ancestry.
Over in Ireland, black Irish is essentially the equivalent of African-American, people of African descent that live in Ireland.
Since you’re from the US, it is surprising to see the term used for someone with red hair at all.
Anyway, it’s all good, just means we have some shared ancestry, which is always interesting :)
More like an AskEthnicStudies question.
Ingroups and outgroups have been useful for a long time. If you’re in, you can use that as a cudgel against those that are out.Irish, German, Italian, Spanish all used to be considered in the outgroup. Now, they’re not, and have enjoyed the advantages of whiteness over the past decades.
