This new TikTok trend is dark af
Goddamn you for making me chuckle
Bring back the ice buckets :(
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Has the US government acknowledged even one of these?
If Biden doesn’t ignore it entirely, he’ll call it an accident or whatever Netanyahu-senpai tells him to say.
Q — outside an Israeli — or outside the Israel Embassy. Was the President aware of his death? Did he have any sort of response to it?
MS. JEAN-PIERRE: Yes, the President is aware. And we can — I can say that it is — obviously, is a — it’s a horrible tragedy, and our thoughts are with the family of the servicemember at — during this — I could — we can’t even imagine this hor- — horrible, difficult time.
Just thoughts and prayers. No acknowledgement of his reasons why, no policy change, just more weapons sent for Israel’s genocide
You really don’t want to have policy be swayed by suicides. It encourages more people to kill themselves.
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Yes I do.
Then you’re letting sentiment drive you rather than reason.
And just to be really fucking clear: I’m against the genocide that is being inflicted on the people of Gaza. But I refuse to allow that someone’s opinion should be given more weight than mine just because they mutilate or kill themselves. Their mental disorder doesn’t confer moral superiority, it detracts from it.
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For reasons that should be obvious an individual protest, no matter how extreme, will never be a factor in foreign policy decisions.
Yeah. The only real factor is “what does Netanyahu-senpai want?”
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The true factor is that Israel is a solid foothold for the US in the Middle East long term.
Well, that’s the excuse.
Don’t absolve Biden and the US of our level of culpability by reducing us to followers led astray by Netanyahu
Led astray? No. Enthusiastically complicit.
There have been so many genocides in the history of humanity, none in recent history are unique or the worst.
If you care about others, you’re exactly the person who shouldn’t kill yourself.
If you care about others, you’re exactly the person who shouldn’t kill yourself.
The carnage just isn’t as entertaining without being able to gloat at people who object to it.
Who’s gloating?
The people that don’t care.
Unbelievable that someone would be brave enough to do this. Respect… rest in peace.
People are “brave” enough to put a shotgun in their mouth and pull the trigger too. That’s not worthy of respect, it’s the symptom of a disease. And we’ll all rest the same way, since the afterlife is a bronze-age fairy tale.
Idk its their life to do what they want with it.
RIP and we are as a collective weather we like it or not. I didn’t forget about a climate scientist doing the same thing.
What really sucks is that this poor person’s cause will be scooped up and used by groups trying to sow division, and don’t actually give a flying fuck about the genocide. If you want to engage with accounts using him as a bludgeon, look through their history first. If it’s legit, fair enough. If it’s obviously a political account, point out what they are doing and block em.
This person went as far as they did for their belief. The least he deserves is not being used by fake bullshitters and bot nets. If you can’t agree with that, you’re disgusting.
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Uh huh. You don’t get to label what I do and don’t support. I’m absolutely against the genocide, but I’m also absolutely aware that there are online campaigns to sway things towards a Trump victory. To deny that well known reality means you are either staggeringly ignorant or complicit.
If you aren’t either, you’ll freely admit to the truth.
If your elected leaders are using your tax dollars to send guns and tanks and bombs to Israel then THEY are responsible for the resulting carnage, not YOU. And your time would be better spent electing better leaders instead of setting yourself on fire.
If your elected leaders are using your tax dollars to send guns and tanks and bombs to Israel then THEY are responsible for the resulting carnage, not YOU. And your time would be better spent electing better leaders instead of setting yourself on fire.
Yeah, but it kinda breaks down at the “electing better leaders” part, since we don’t have an anti-genocide candidate in either major party.
Very few policies are determined by party platforms at election times. There were no pro-civil-rights-movement candidates from the major parties back in the 1960s either. Events drove them, and those events didn’t just randomly happen. There were decades of organizing, recruiting, training, planning, and hard debate that went into them, and people laid their lives on the line in furtherance of actual goals, not empty gestures.
Similarly, neither major party opposed the Vietnam war, or either of the Iraq wars, or the invasion of Afghanistan, or gay rights. That’s all just an excuse for inaction. Public opinion can be changed, even if it sometimes happens too late. But if you’re not willing to get out in the streets, nothing will happen at all.
Then “electing better leaders” was the same canard it was in all those cases. Just a platitude to delay.
Electoral politics ends with the presidency. It doesn’t start there. Bernie worked for progressive causes for decades before running in 2016. He worked his way up from mayor to Congress to Senate. His near miss in the primary in 2020 pulled Biden to the left on several issues.
If you want to end support for Israel, and I agree we should end support for Israel, even if they stop the war tomorrow. Then you should be writing letters, going to county Democratic meetings and finding candidates to run for state legislature that share your beliefs.
If you want to end support for Israel, and I agree we should end support for Israel, even if they stop the war tomorrow. Then you should be writing letters, going to county Democratic meetings and finding candidates to run for state legislature that share your beliefs.
We just had two demonstrations of how that ends. Their names were Cori Bush and Jamaal Bowman. AIPAC openly bought candidates to replace them. I don’t have enough lifetimes to stop that, and neither do you.
Do you think there is only one election in November?
Do you think Democrats are ever going to move any direction other than right?
In down-ballot races? Absolutely.
But that’s not even the same conversation.
In down-ballot races? Absolutely.
But that’s not even the same conversation.
Well, let’s have that conversation. The party uses incumbency as an excuse to lock out progressive candidates like Jessica Cisneros. They pulled out all the stops to make sure Coathanger Cuellar won his primary. But when the incumbent is a progressive like Jamaal Bowman or Cori Bush, incumbency does not convey with it party protection. The party’s move to the right is deliberate in down-ballot races as well.
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this totally isn’t just your excuse/rationalization for attacking someone actually willing to take action against genocide
Not speaking for them, but someone committing ineffectual self-destruction isn’t something worthy of emulation.
Anyone who tacitly supports the genocide and doesn’t do everything in their power to bring an end to and oppose the genocide is culpable.
Nothing like a little binary thinking to capture the nuance of a situation.
Here’s a thought exercise: if everyone here in the US who cared even an iota about stopping the genocide were to self-immolate, what difference would it make besides leaving a trail of bereaved people and a small contribution to making climate change even worse? Do you honestly believe that, even if hundreds of thousands or millions of Americans set themselves on fire, the ethno-chauvinist goons in the Likud would give a shit, or American public opinion would be swayed even slightly from its lethargic apathy? Only organizing, engaging in the political process and continuing to publicize the situation, along with BDS, will make any difference. The rest is displacement activity that, at most, will make you feel good about your own righteousness, but which benefits nobody.
It’s mindless and morally reprehensible to valorize someone’s suicide, regardless of the excuse they might have given.
Neat agitprop, Ozma!
Strong heart, weak mind
Stfu
Do they really think the genocide would stop if the US stopped supporting Israel? Are they really that ignorant of the situation over there?
Here’s a hint, all indications are that it would make things much, much worse. If you don’t understand how, then you haven’t been paying attention.
What kind of argument is this? “We gotta keep supporting genocide, or there will be more genocide” You aren’t paying attention if you don’t think this situation is horrendously bad and the people supporting it are monsters.
Anyway, here’s a picture of a US supplied bomb that killed 45 people at a refugee camp in Rafah.
Yes the US is supplying precision strike weapons, you know what Israel will do if they no longer have precision strike weapons? The answer is not give up and go home. It has been almost a year since the war started and casualties are at 40k. For a heavily populated urban environment that’s actually quite low because Israel uses precision strike weapons.
The US is the only country that has even a chance of bringing Israel to the table for ceasefire talks. There is literally no one else they will listen to. If the US withdraws support, that goes away.
If the US withdraws support, Iran invades. They’ve been pretty clear on that point, and a full scale war will only lead to vastly increased numbers of civilian deaths.
These things should not have to be pointed out. I get that people feel helpless, but the genocide doesn’t stop if the US withdraws support. It only gets worse.
Yeah how are those ceasefire talks going?
There are a ton of things the US could do than just providing unconditional military aid to be used on Palestinian civilians that doesn’t result in Iran invading. At the absolute bare minimum enforce their own “red lines.” Precision strike weapons are pointless if they’re just used for indescriminate bombing.
You’re talking down to me as if you know the objective facts, but there are in fact things the US could do to stop this that they are actively choosing not to do. There are more conditions on weapons going to Ukraine than to Israel. It’s disgusting and apologists for it are disgusting.
Just want to touch on one point to highlight how you’re not thinking rationally and maybe have been taking too many headlines at face value:
If Israel’s goal was to “bomb indescriminately” why would they bother using precision strike weapons?
Because doing nothing about it is any better? Lol
Have the serenity to accept the things you cannot change, the courage to change the things you can, and wisdom to know the difference.
You will be enriched in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion.
We’re just hitting the “random Bible verse” button right? Because speaking out against injustice is something that one can control. I can’t stop the injustice, but I can sure as hell make sure everyone knows that I think it’s shitty, and I can hope they will eventually stop being shitty.
You’re describing your version of “thoughts and prayers.”
The pro-Palestinian movement has devolved into a movement that’s largely based around hatred of Israel. Which is why most of society is ignoring it now. The genocide that’s being used to justify that hatred didn’t happen. The UN expressed concerns earlier in the year (which many took to be a declaration of genocide) but we haven’t heard anything from them since then. There were concerns over there being a famine (people said that was Israel’s intention) but that also didn’t happen.
The pro-Palestinian movement was unable to contain their hatred. Some people tried to call out the antisemitism but they were drowned out by the hate. So now it’s become an alt-right movement that distrusts the mainstream media (many think it’s controlled by the Jews) and have restricted their information intake to just internet sources that agree with their narrative. So it’s being ignored by most of society… other than concerns about potential violence coming from that movement. That movement failed to influence the broader population because no matter how much the hatred is denied by those within the movement, its obvious to everyone outside of the movement
Pushing false narratives isn’t going to help anyone in Palestine, but it’s not about helping Palestinians now is it? It’s about promoting hatred of Israel. The “speaking out” about a false narrative is just something that makes you feel better, it doesn’t help anyone. Probably actually hurts Palestinians because there won’t be peace as long as the hatred persists.
Crazy how much you can tell me about myself without knowing a single thing. Which of my two previous comments were anti semitic? Was it the one where I said we shouldn’t do nothing about injustice; or the one where I said we should voice our opinions?
The genocide didn’t happen
I believe 17 thousand dead children and 23 thousand of their dead parents would disagree with you. I think the 116 dead journalists would disagree (hey do you know what a war crime is? Journalists and civilians are protected classes during wartime). They’ve committed to total war - not just killing fighters, but bombing schools and hospitals too under the guise of “searching for the terrorists.” And they revel in it.
Maybe you haven’t heard anything about it, but the ICJ has been continuing to speak with both sides about their misdeeds. They’ve ordered Israel to stop destroying Palestine because they need to have evidence of both sides atrocities (Hamas has commit war crimes too!) to which Israel responded “the IDF is operating to dismantle Hamas military and administrative capabilities.” That was this May. Earlier this week, they bombed a school and claimed that 3 of the UNRWA members working there were Hamas agents - with literally 0 evidence as far as the UN can tell.
And before you start writing your response, really think about what you’re saying. You claim that those of us speaking out against it are spewing hatred, but I don’t hate Israel or Jewish people or any of that. I just wish that 40 thousand people (and counting! Humanitarian sites continue to get attacked to this day) didn’t have to die for no reason.
Here’s a hint, all indications are that it would make things much, much worse.
It absolutely would, and Israel knows that too. So if there were a real threat of “take it down a notch or US support stops” I’m guessing that might influence Israel. But there is no such threat, they will continue to receive our unconditional support no matter what, and so it will continue until Netanyahu gets tired.
There have been more casualties in Ukraine this year than in Gaza.
People are just being told it’s a genocide to upset them and to make them feel a sense of urgency to do something now. And probably to get Hamas some more money so they can drag this conflict out longer (which results in more casualties).
People are being fed a constant stream of images and stories to keep them angry without a moment to think. Now it’s starting to feel like people want there to be a genocide to prove their accusations were right.
There have been more casualties in Ukraine this year than in Gaza.
Ukraine’s population is 36M. Gaza’s, a bit over 2M. So comparing rates rather than absolute numbers might be less bad.
But it’s also a bad idea to get into contests about which catastrophe is worse, when both are appalling crimes against humanity committed by imperialist/colonialist nationalist aggressors.
And what’s happening in Sudan is even larger-scale.
It’s a genocide. They are taking their sweet time about it. It will take a few generations rather than a few years or weeks or months, but the end goal is clear, no more Palestinians in Palestine. it’s been a genocide since the 2 state solution was abandoned.
The 2-state solution was never viable. The power asymmetry is too great.
I genuinely agree that the 2 state solution is not remotely likely.
But without it, an apartied state is the best case scenario. More likely, someone is getting genocided, so however unlikely, it has my support.
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Seems like one would fly over and join the fight vs setting oneself on fire.
Do you think we’d be reading an article about this guy flying overseas?
The goal is to draw attention to something.
I’m not trying to be a dick, just pragmatic. This is the only story I could find on this matter, and I’m guessing very few people are aware that this even happened. I’m just saying I’d think long and hard for an angle that would lead to maximum results if I was ready to die…
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Well, any act that actually accomplished something would be more effective than a futile gesture.
Killing yourself to tell draw attention to something absolutely everyone is aware or seems stupid. If anything this just draws attention to some dude killing himself in a gruesome way.
He would then be reported on as a terrorist, kinda undermining the whole optics.
So instead of possibly doing something to directly help Palestinians that might be misunderstood after his death, he sets himself on fire? Because optics? No way anyone could ever misunderstand that 🙄
It accomplishes nothing at all. Makes no sense to do it over actual direct action if you plan to die anyway.
His goal was to die. Any benefit to the Palestinians was secondary, or more likely, an ad-hoc excuse.
Big oof. Don’t they know that self-immolation only really works for stuff that the general public doesn’t know about?
It doesn’t really work for stuff that most are aware of and have opinions on. It just makes him look like an mentally ill suicide victim. Not exactly someone to listen to on foreign policy
It just makes him look like an mentally ill suicide victim.
Imagine looking at this and reaching the conclusion that it is he and not the world that has gone mad.
Anyone who blames themselves for something they have absolutely no say in or control over, to the degree they are willing to set themselves on fire over it, is mentally ill.
Your confused. Self-immolation isn’t about self-punishment anymore than any other protest method.
It’s the “we are all culpable” leading to the immolation that’s indicative of mental illness.
He said “we are all culpable” not “I alone am culpable.”
I think most if not all of the “he’s nuts” talk is from people who would rather not consider themselves culpable.
He said “we are all culpable” not “I alone am culpable.”
And that’s stupid binary thinking and he was wrong.
I think most if not all of the “he’s nuts” talk is from people who would rather not consider themselves culpable.
Thus.
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Any world in which the principal superpower lets a tiny nation write its foreign policy for it, to the point where that superpower is giving the tiny nation the means to commit genocide and refuses to stop, is a profoundly sick world.
Israel attacked an intelligence gathering ship to prevent it from realizing that Israel was the one starting shit in Syria… then the US really started supporting it.
Israel is a blight on the world.
What, are you 16? Do you think this is some kind of life-changing insight?
It changes nothing. He’s still dead and the genocide continues for your entertainment.
I’m gonna say the guy that self immolated was not mentally well even if I agree with his cause
By comparison with a world in which the major superpower can’t muster a candidate who opposes genocide? Yeah, the world is way sicker than this guy was.
I’m not nor was I comparing it to anything. If you self immolate, that’s a very strong indicator you’re not mentally well. Again, I agree with their cause but it’s really weird to imply they were mentally healthy when they decided to light themselves on fire and die horrifically
What does sanity even mean in an insane world?
Wow, that’s some deep thought, there, R D Laing. What if we’re the crazy ones?
People close to me have schizophrenia. It’s as much a disease as cancer is. If you don’t believe that, you’ve never experienced it up close, or you have an inability to learn from direct experience.
People close to me have schizophrenia.
Same. I don’t use their illness as an excuse to ignore atrocities.
See a psychiatrist
For knowing that genocide is madness.
I mean dude did kill himself by setting himself on fire. That’s pretty nuts
I mean, we’re kinda working on that as a species as well.
And would you call that sane?
Nope. But we’re gonna keep doing it anyway, and calling this guy crazy because it’s easier than admitting that we are all culpable.
You are in no position to determine my degree of culpability, or that of anyone who’s not pulling a trigger.
Wash those hands, Pilate.
a guy committed suicide by setting himself on fire
yeah but you know global warming, so aren’t we all crazy
Friend, come on
If you want to pretend that we live on a sane planet, well, when on Earth, do as the Earthlings do, I guess.
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More immediate cause was probably all that burning gasoline he poured on himself. What a waste
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You’re trying to blame the US for some suicidal man killing himself. Idk, I’m not a fan of suicide overall.
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I’m encouraging others not to waste their lives, when they can accomplish far more by staying alive and engaging.
But if you want to torch yourself and refuse to get professional help, I can’t stop you. Just don’t encourage others to emulate your disordered thinking.
