• the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    4 hours ago

    We know what a head is. It’s a part of a biological creature. In the absence of some convincing evidence or argumentation otherwise, it doesn’t make sense to assume it’s a head.

    • agamemnonymous
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      4 hours ago

      Robots are not biological, yet many have heads that fulfill the same sensory function as biological heads. It is very possible that non-biological sentient entities exist, and in absence of some convincing evidence or argumentation otherwise, it doesn’t make sense to definitively assume nuclear sentiences can’t exist.

      • the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        4 hours ago

        You’re piling on assumptions like crazy, which makes for a logically weak position. All other things being equal, the claim that relies on the fewest assumptions is more likely to be true. Given the increasingly outlandish assumptions at play, it makes more sense to believe that the sun is not a sentient head glowing with rage.

        • agamemnonymous
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          4 hours ago

          Not really, no. My position is objectively based on fewer assumptions than yours. Occam’s razor is certainly useful, but it is not a tool for determining truth. It’s only a tool for determining the simplest explanation.

          Your assumption that sentient beings, and their heads, must be biological places your claim in a much more precarious position relative to the razor than mine.

          • the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            3 hours ago

            You’re making the argument that it is, or could be, a sentient, angry head. No evidence or arguments for that position, other than “well we can’t say it isn’t” have been presented. A head is a defined object, and there’s no reason to modify the definition of “head” to include the sun. Your argument doesn’t make much more sense than “a hydrogen atom may be a carbon atom, your assumption that it isn’t is precarious.”

            Occam’s razor is indeed for simpler arguments rather than article strictly for truth. But from my experience as an engineer, generally the fewer assumptions you make when coming to a conclusion, the closer to the truth you’ll actually be.

            • agamemnonymous
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              3 hours ago

              Correct. So assumptions like “life must be biological, and alternative claims are outlandish” places you objectively further from the truth.

              • the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                2 hours ago

                “Life” is a defined term, a biological function. Non-biological objects are, by definition, not living. This isn’t an assumption, it’s a definition. Again, you’re essentially arguing that hydrogen atoms are also carbon atoms.

                • agamemnonymous
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  2 hours ago

                  Only if you define it that way, which means that you need an alternative term for non-biological entities which, otherwise, fulfill all the actually functional landmarks of life: sensing, processing, and subsequently interacting with the environment. There’s no proof that these phenomena are implicitly bound to biological systems.

                  Call it what you want, but there’s absolutely no evidence (besides the circumstantial evidence of observed phenomenon in an implicitly biased environment) that biology is the only way to achieve sentience. Our knowledge of the mechanisms of sentience is woefully limited. Biological-chauvinism only cements your own myopic biases, skepticism taken to the extreme of prejudice.

                  I’m claiming that carbon and hydrogen are both atomic elements composed of protons, neutrons, and electrons. You’re claiming that hydrogen is the only legitimate substance and carbon, by definition, isn’t a real substance.

                  • the_toast_is_gone@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    1 hour ago

                    A definition is not an assumption, it’s a description of something which has certain known properties. If something else fulfills similar functions to a living being, but it isn’t a biological entity, then, by the biological definition, it isn’t alive. I’m not sure what your issue is here. It’s not like we’re ever going to run out of definitions. Are you arguing in favor of animism?

                    My claim is that carbon and hydrogen are distinct substances with particular properties and definitions. There is no “one true substance.”