I don’t have good line of sight into what happens outside of the US, but are cancer treatments unlimited for those in single payer systems? Even if the person requires treatment for years? Just wondering how it works (forgive my ignorance)!
Yes, but the treatments don’t cost as much to the government/taxpayer, since medications aren’t inflated to the moon since insurance is supposed to pay.
In Australia with the NDIS prosthetics etc are covered. So are other items related to disability. Eg shower chairs, home modifications, crutches, consumables eg special soap etc.
In Australia with the NDIS prosthetics etc are covered. So are other items related to disability. Eg shower chairs, home modifications, crutches, consumables eg special soap etc.
It depends on the country, but healthcare is much cheaper and simpler everywhere else in the developed world than in the US. We live in a corporate dystopia.
I live in New Zealand, so this is hyper specific to how our healthcare system is set up, other countries will have radically different systems.
The way it works in NZ is that all hospital visits are free, and all medicine dispensed within the hospital are free. Visits to your GP are free if you are under 16, over 65 or pregnant. Medicines prescribed by your GP have a price cap ($100NZ/year/person iirc), as long as they are on the “Pharmac” list.
The 2 main caveats to this:
Hospitals don’t have infinite capacity. If you need non-acute treatment (ie, you aren’t going to suffer serious harm by not getting treated immediately), you could easily be waiting a year to see a specialist
Pharmac. The way the government ensures that drug prices stay affordable is by giving a government agency a big chunk of cash, and telling them to use it to buy the drugs that are going to have the best “bang for the buck”, and use the bulk purchase negotiating power to get as good a price as possible - hospitals pretty much exclusively prescribe Pharmac drugs because they don’t have the budget to buy anything else. This means that in general, if you’ve got something common, the drugs you’ll need will probably be on the Pharmac list and you’ll not have to pay anything, but if it’s rare, or you want a newer more expensive treatment, or you just get unlucky and need a drug that Pharmac doesn’t cover you can be in a really hard spot.
Private medical insurance does exist, and is pretty much there to let you “skip the queue” - there are private hospitals not funded by the government that employ their own specialists (who typically also work in the public system) - or to fund drugs that Pharmac won’t. Is fairly common in mid-end white collar jobs (especially finance and tech) to have private insurance paid for by your employer, but is pretty much just there for “what if I get an exotic cancer” or “what if I fuck up my knee and don’t want to have to wait a few months for surgery”. My wife needed her gall bladder removed a couple of years ago, and we just used the public hospital even though we do have insurance that might have paid for private - the public system is excellent for 95% of things.
If you need non-acute treatment (ie, you aren’t going to suffer serious harm by not getting treated immediately), you could easily be waiting a year to see a specialist
This is also true in the U.S. entirely for-profit healthcare system. I had to wait over 9 months just to get an appointment with a new neurologist when my previous one retired.
It’s also something that a lot of Republicans claim is a problem in countries with socialized medicine but not in the U.S., which always gets a derisive laugh from me.
Yeah, I get that from the US perspective the idea of there not really being a hard price tag on everything is a bit odd - the US system is bonkers and confusing from the outside as well (and it kinda feels like that’s by design).
Another example as to how this works in practice; my daughter was born a couple of years ago
As soon as we found out my wife was pregnant picked a midwife from the list of available ones in our area (we talked to 3, picked the one we liked the best)
We saw her once a month for the first 2 trimesters, then weekly from then
We got ultrasound scans every 8 weeks to keep tabs on development
Due to some minor complications we saw an OB/GYN at the hospital a couple of times
My wife needed to be induced, and there were some more complications during delivery so our total hospital stay was 9 days
She had an epidural, and needed a pair of specialists to help deliver the baby
We kept seeing our midwife fortnightly for 3 months after birth
We saw the OB/GYN again after that to check in on the complications and make sure everything was ok
Our out of pocket expenses were
The ultrasounds, because we chose to go to a clinic near where we lived
Parking
The insurance excess for when someone put a dent in my car door in the carpark
Food delivery for me for the time we were in hospital; I could have got very cheap meals from the canteen, but didn’t really fancy any of it
Grand total was less than $500 NZD (not counting the insurance excess), and we could have avoided the majority of those costs if we wanted to.
Not saying the system is perfect; it’s functionally impossible to get mental health support publicly, dental care isn’t publicly funded if you are over 18, it seems like nurses and junior doctors have to constantly fight to get pay rises that keep up with inflation, and the system as a whole has been chronically underfunded for decades - but we don’t have people choosing between death or bankruptcy, and we have higher life expectancy so shrug
I mean, it isn’t cancer, but I have a family member that will need IVIG infusions every 2 weeks for the rest of their life (25+ years). Here they are ~$10k each one. I know it is like 1/3 of the price outside the US, but would something costly like that be covered without limitations?
(I’m just curious how things tactically work out)
Edit: I realize that my perspective is a very US consumer one. We feel entitled to whatever we can pay for (and when it’s free, like a buffet, it can be a lot). It is a pretty big mind shift to move from whatever you want to pay for even if it isnt practical to what you need. Anyhoo, this got me thinking and adjusting my expectations. 😃
No idea about that specific illness, but in general: yes it would be covered in the German system.
In general if a doctor decided you need a certain, scientifically and widely accepted treatment for a certain illness to not die or bring you back to health, it will be covered by your insurance. But it will be the cheapest version, so no extras.
And now comes the but: the insurances don’t really like to pay that much over a longer time, so often chronically ill persons have to jump through loops to get the help and financing they need.
For example chronically ill people need to prove via doctors note again and again that, yes, they are indeed still chronically ill and did not get healed by a miracle in the last year. It’s argued that they do this to combat fraud, but honestly, I would much rather pay a bit more in my invoices and know that those who need it are not put under unnecessary stress.
From a quick Google search, IVIG infusions are a treatment used in the NHS, so yes if a consultant started you on that treatment you would have it for life if necessary and it would cost you nothing.
In the US it costs $100 an oz to manufacturer (just to get it into the bottle). It is crazy that having the gov manufacture it can reduce costs so much. Probably a poster child for single payer.
It’s a big part of the reason India doesn’t recognise Pharma patents - they make their own versions and don’t worry about paying the huge licensing costs.
I don’t have good line of sight into what happens outside of the US, but are cancer treatments unlimited for those in single payer systems? Even if the person requires treatment for years? Just wondering how it works (forgive my ignorance)!
Yes, but the treatments don’t cost as much to the government/taxpayer, since medications aren’t inflated to the moon since insurance is supposed to pay.
Yea, that’s kinda the point.
No worries about medical debt.
Mostly. Sometimes you can still get screwed by things that aren’t covered like prosthetics.
Well prosthetics usually have bullshit coverage requirements, if any coverage, with the US system as well.
In Australia with the NDIS prosthetics etc are covered. So are other items related to disability. Eg shower chairs, home modifications, crutches, consumables eg special soap etc.
In Australia with the NDIS prosthetics etc are covered. So are other items related to disability. Eg shower chairs, home modifications, crutches, consumables eg special soap etc.
deleted by creator
It depends on the country, but healthcare is much cheaper and simpler everywhere else in the developed world than in the US. We live in a corporate dystopia.
Sort of.
I live in New Zealand, so this is hyper specific to how our healthcare system is set up, other countries will have radically different systems.
The way it works in NZ is that all hospital visits are free, and all medicine dispensed within the hospital are free. Visits to your GP are free if you are under 16, over 65 or pregnant. Medicines prescribed by your GP have a price cap ($100NZ/year/person iirc), as long as they are on the “Pharmac” list.
The 2 main caveats to this:
Private medical insurance does exist, and is pretty much there to let you “skip the queue” - there are private hospitals not funded by the government that employ their own specialists (who typically also work in the public system) - or to fund drugs that Pharmac won’t. Is fairly common in mid-end white collar jobs (especially finance and tech) to have private insurance paid for by your employer, but is pretty much just there for “what if I get an exotic cancer” or “what if I fuck up my knee and don’t want to have to wait a few months for surgery”. My wife needed her gall bladder removed a couple of years ago, and we just used the public hospital even though we do have insurance that might have paid for private - the public system is excellent for 95% of things.
This is also true in the U.S. entirely for-profit healthcare system. I had to wait over 9 months just to get an appointment with a new neurologist when my previous one retired.
It’s also something that a lot of Republicans claim is a problem in countries with socialized medicine but not in the U.S., which always gets a derisive laugh from me.
This is a great explainer but I do want to let you know I chuckled at “mid-end”.
Thanks for this! Starting to get my head around it 😃
Yeah, I get that from the US perspective the idea of there not really being a hard price tag on everything is a bit odd - the US system is bonkers and confusing from the outside as well (and it kinda feels like that’s by design).
Another example as to how this works in practice; my daughter was born a couple of years ago
Our out of pocket expenses were
Grand total was less than $500 NZD (not counting the insurance excess), and we could have avoided the majority of those costs if we wanted to.
Not saying the system is perfect; it’s functionally impossible to get mental health support publicly, dental care isn’t publicly funded if you are over 18, it seems like nurses and junior doctors have to constantly fight to get pay rises that keep up with inflation, and the system as a whole has been chronically underfunded for decades - but we don’t have people choosing between death or bankruptcy, and we have higher life expectancy so shrug
Unlimited? What do you mean? That is a weird question with several possible interpretations.
For years? Yes. Of course.
I mean, it isn’t cancer, but I have a family member that will need IVIG infusions every 2 weeks for the rest of their life (25+ years). Here they are ~$10k each one. I know it is like 1/3 of the price outside the US, but would something costly like that be covered without limitations?
(I’m just curious how things tactically work out)
Edit: I realize that my perspective is a very US consumer one. We feel entitled to whatever we can pay for (and when it’s free, like a buffet, it can be a lot). It is a pretty big mind shift to move from whatever you want to pay for even if it isnt practical to what you need. Anyhoo, this got me thinking and adjusting my expectations. 😃
No idea about that specific illness, but in general: yes it would be covered in the German system.
In general if a doctor decided you need a certain, scientifically and widely accepted treatment for a certain illness to not die or bring you back to health, it will be covered by your insurance. But it will be the cheapest version, so no extras.
And now comes the but: the insurances don’t really like to pay that much over a longer time, so often chronically ill persons have to jump through loops to get the help and financing they need.
For example chronically ill people need to prove via doctors note again and again that, yes, they are indeed still chronically ill and did not get healed by a miracle in the last year. It’s argued that they do this to combat fraud, but honestly, I would much rather pay a bit more in my invoices and know that those who need it are not put under unnecessary stress.
From a quick Google search, IVIG infusions are a treatment used in the NHS, so yes if a consultant started you on that treatment you would have it for life if necessary and it would cost you nothing.
Just a quick check for Australia- https://medicalcostsfinder.health.gov.au/services/Q14245/oh?specialty=020401
Costs $88 to the Gov, $0 to patients.
In the US it costs $100 an oz to manufacturer (just to get it into the bottle). It is crazy that having the gov manufacture it can reduce costs so much. Probably a poster child for single payer.
It’s a big part of the reason India doesn’t recognise Pharma patents - they make their own versions and don’t worry about paying the huge licensing costs.