I dunno why but I’m somehow bothered by the post on an emotional level. I do not want to accuse anybody, it’s primarily my own issue of course.
The first thing I thought of was transgender men getting told to present feminine. I think nobody should be told how they should dress.
I know it’s a meme and I am taking this a bit too seriously.
Anyways skirts are cool and can be cute and feminine like in the op or cool and masculine like a kilt. It’s a very versatile garment everybody could wear more often.
I had similar feelings about this post. Reminds me of a pansexual family member of mine who claims that everyone is pansexual, really, if they just get over their hang-ups. I’m all for people being who they want to be, and feeling free to express themselves. I dislike the patronizing implication that if I don’t want to wear a crop-top and skirt, it’s because I’m not sufficiently enlightened or liberated.
I don’t think that was at all OP’s intent, to be clear—just thinking out loud as it were. I appreciate your thoughtful response.
I think that a lot of people believe on some level that everyone else works as they do. Even if they intellectually know this to not be true.
I can imagine that someone who struggled with their sexuality or gender can believe to see their own struggles in others. And like in your example if their personal solution was to “just get over their hang-ups” it makes sense that they see that also as a solution for others.
Another more annoying example would be those older people that are clearly in the closet saying stuff like “this is normal. Everybody has those urges/thoughts sometime.”
Back to the topic of this being patronizing: I agree. Respect should go both ways. Even if one is 100% convinced someone is a member of the alphabet mafia and even if they are right in the end, one should respect them living their life as they want to as long as it does not negatively affect others in a major way of course (hateful or intolerant behaviors).
I had an acquaintance once who behaved very stereotypically flamboyantly gay. From voice to body language. The thing is he himself says he is not attracted to men at all. Has a wife and last I heard soon a child. At least to me as an outsider it looked clearly like they truly loved each other. He told me multiple stories of gay men trying to convince him he’s gay or bisexual. Militantly so. Of course also stories of people being bigoted and assuming that he is gay.
Another story was something in a game community where a trans girl called someone who was clearly struggling with their gender identity feminine pronouns and even a feminine sounding name. Even though they said multiple times that they don’t like it. I also talked with the trans girl that I didn’t find this ok. In the end it turned out that they were indeed a trans woman. I still believe to this day the behavior was disrespectful at the time.
Sorry for the wall of text. I got a bit carried away.
I think of this as analogous to the movement to get women to wear pants. It’s not that we wanted them to present as masculine; it’s that we wanted pants to stop being masculine and start being just clothes. Basically all masculine coded attire became androgynous, but almost no feminine code attire did.
It’s not like skirts are inherently feminine either. There are plenty of examples across cultures and time of it being perfectly normal for men to wear them.
So presenting masculine is not attractive?
I dunno why but I’m somehow bothered by the post on an emotional level. I do not want to accuse anybody, it’s primarily my own issue of course.
The first thing I thought of was transgender men getting told to present feminine. I think nobody should be told how they should dress.
I know it’s a meme and I am taking this a bit too seriously.
Anyways skirts are cool and can be cute and feminine like in the op or cool and masculine like a kilt. It’s a very versatile garment everybody could wear more often.
I had similar feelings about this post. Reminds me of a pansexual family member of mine who claims that everyone is pansexual, really, if they just get over their hang-ups. I’m all for people being who they want to be, and feeling free to express themselves. I dislike the patronizing implication that if I don’t want to wear a crop-top and skirt, it’s because I’m not sufficiently enlightened or liberated.
I don’t think that was at all OP’s intent, to be clear—just thinking out loud as it were. I appreciate your thoughtful response.
I think that a lot of people believe on some level that everyone else works as they do. Even if they intellectually know this to not be true.
I can imagine that someone who struggled with their sexuality or gender can believe to see their own struggles in others. And like in your example if their personal solution was to “just get over their hang-ups” it makes sense that they see that also as a solution for others.
Another more annoying example would be those older people that are clearly in the closet saying stuff like “this is normal. Everybody has those urges/thoughts sometime.”
Back to the topic of this being patronizing: I agree. Respect should go both ways. Even if one is 100% convinced someone is a member of the alphabet mafia and even if they are right in the end, one should respect them living their life as they want to as long as it does not negatively affect others in a major way of course (hateful or intolerant behaviors).
I had an acquaintance once who behaved very stereotypically flamboyantly gay. From voice to body language. The thing is he himself says he is not attracted to men at all. Has a wife and last I heard soon a child. At least to me as an outsider it looked clearly like they truly loved each other. He told me multiple stories of gay men trying to convince him he’s gay or bisexual. Militantly so. Of course also stories of people being bigoted and assuming that he is gay.
Another story was something in a game community where a trans girl called someone who was clearly struggling with their gender identity feminine pronouns and even a feminine sounding name. Even though they said multiple times that they don’t like it. I also talked with the trans girl that I didn’t find this ok. In the end it turned out that they were indeed a trans woman. I still believe to this day the behavior was disrespectful at the time.
Sorry for the wall of text. I got a bit carried away.
I think of this as analogous to the movement to get women to wear pants. It’s not that we wanted them to present as masculine; it’s that we wanted pants to stop being masculine and start being just clothes. Basically all masculine coded attire became androgynous, but almost no feminine code attire did.
It’s not like skirts are inherently feminine either. There are plenty of examples across cultures and time of it being perfectly normal for men to wear them.
calling skirts + crop top attractive is not the same as calling only that attractive. i hope this helps you make peace with this post