Yeah, alienating people for not supporting genocide is such an excellent move. Did you happen to work as a strategist with Harris campaign because this is right up their alley.
When you refuse to see that picking evil will never lead to anything other than additional harm and suffering, you’re saying you’re comfortable with that.
How can you take issue with the person who chose another path and not the one you literally described as “evil?”
Once again the evil person is given a free pass here while you deride those who chose another path. These evil people have deluded you into thinking that every problem is a trolley problem to the point that you’re supporting genocide while trying to claim the moral high ground. Explain that logic…
In a real life trolley problem, you are supposed to blame the ones driving the train and tying up people to tracks, not the guy pulling the lever.
Yes not voting was stupid, but it’s dumber to actually think they hold the blame. The dems won’t even acknowledge being pro genocide was a bad move and it’s because they feel confident their base has been manipulated to blame a scape goat.
What kind of change are we to expect if we can’t even be vocal about something so ridiculous as supporting genocide even after most of us held the line and voted for it anyways. Keep them accountable and stop giving them an easy out.
You can be vocal about it and still vote for the lesser evil in order to reduce harm and save lives.
This is what almost every legitimate progressive voice I knew did.
It is what I did.
It is what every leftist I know did.
When will libs understand leftists are serious in their coalition building and stop existentially questioning the trustworthiness of our intentions?
Disagree with me, lets talk policy, let us hash out together the 1000 ways things were able to get this bad… but please fucking STOP categorically calling into question our intentions or ability to make the necessary play none of us are excited about. This is baby stuff, leftist discourse discusses this stuff constantly, terminally online leftists by and large get it trust me.
we voted for Harris
we voted for Biden
we voted for Clinton
The people who didn’t turn out to vote weren’t highly informed leftists and more importantly weren’t the kind of people who give a shit about hearing what terminally upset leftists had to say. If you think Sam Seder, Emma Vigeland, Krystal Ball and Kyle Kulinsky, The Rational National, Benjamin Dixon etc… had an impact on unengaged low information voters you are making an absurd leap of thinking… and they advocated for voting for Harris anyways, go back, check the receipts.
Most importantly, the ones who didn’t turn out to vote were in states that don’t matter anyway. Harris actually got more votes than Biden in most key swing states.
This is a thread about what Trump is currently doing and the most upvoted comment is blaming voters. I don’t know what alienating people after the election serves. It’s literally going to make sure they repeat the same behavior, doubly so if the dems feel confident enough to run on apathy a second time.
My point is that currently, most here seem to be vocal about the wrong thing. They voted stupidly but we’re goaded into it by a party that clearly does not represent its constituantes anymore. We should be asking the party to change but we are doing the opposite.
Exactly. The truth is that the current DNC is utterly incapable of actually winning a presidential election, and they have been incapable of it for more than a decade. 2020 was an anomaly; they won only due to covid. Fixating on Gaza will only ensure that the fundamental mistakes aren’t corrected and that Republicans win again in 2028.
It’s a fucking war. Sometimes the only option you get is to put off losing. We didn’t do that, in no small part because of idiot idealists who apparently refuse to understand a concept so basic even chimps get it. Now, thanks to that and SO much more, even being hopeful is approaching the realm of deluded fantasy.
I have no problem alienating people who think their own precious idea of morality is somehow so sacrosanct it can’t be compromised even to actually save the lives they pretend to care about.
Kamala/Biden were already losing before the Palestine conflict started. Palestine did not cause Kamala to lose the election. She could have used Palestine as a signal that she intended to truly strike out in a new direction, but she chose not to do that.
Unfortunately, that kind of radical break from the past was the only hope any Democrat had in 2024. People have this weird view that 2024 is an anomaly. It’s not. 2020 was the anomaly. Trump only lost in 2020 because of covid. If not for covid, Trump would have easily won in 2020.
You might as well be blaming Gaza for the Libertarian party not winning. The existing Democratic party is as nonviable at the presidential level as the Libertarian party is. The current Democratic leadership is fundamentally incapable of winning a national presidential election. They literally are not capable of it. They got lucky in 2020 due to a disaster of historic proportions, but in normal times, they are not capable of wielding a candidate that will win a presidential election.
Only radical change and reform in the DNC can change this. And this is ultimately why scapegoating the handful of people who actually stayed home due to Gaza is counterproductive. If you think Kamala lost in 2024 due to Gaza, you’re going to be sorely, sorely disappointed in 2028 when another DNC centrist fails to win, even when the Gaza issue is no longer on the table.
“It’s a fucking war that’s why we need to give them bombs, arms, jets, cash, and our full support. It’s our only option”
Look, I get it, and I’d be grieving too if I openly supported such atrocities, and it all turned out to be for nothing, but you’re eventually going to find yourself standing alone with the other RadLibs as nobody finds diet-Republican ideals appealing.
I feel like there’s very little chance you intentionally misinterpreted my comment, so in the interest of keeping civil discourse alive: what’s happening in Palestine isn’t a war, it’s a massacre, and I was referring to the nascent civil war and fascist takeover of the US when I said ‘war’ (and to the things like rampant persecution of LGB (and especially T) people, the open violence against the poor and minorities, etc.).
I did misinterpret you, and I agree with what you’re saying in this comment, but I don’t think people like Harris, Biden, or Clinton are on our side in this war, nor are the party leaders who pushed them on us.
I don’t disagree they’re not on our side, I just think they’d have been much less likely to plunge the country into a fascist hellscape and persecute the people I care about.
I won’t deny that it was a stupid move by the dems, but at the same time choosing to abstain from one of the most important elections in US history because you don’t want to choose between the lesser of two evils is just naive. Life is literally full of choosing between the lesser of two evils, inside and outside of politics. And I understand that the situation in Gaza is fucked up, but I also know that by abstaining it only made the situation worse. I know its not 100% their fault as there were many factors that led to Trump winning, but I personally don’t think betting with other people’s lives is altruistic. I think it’s selfish.
Yeah, alienating people for not supporting genocide is such an excellent move. Did you happen to work as a strategist with Harris campaign because this is right up their alley.
When you refuse to pick the lesser of two evils, what you are actually saying is you’re comfortable with either one.
When you refuse to see that picking evil will never lead to anything other than additional harm and suffering, you’re saying you’re comfortable with that.
How can you take issue with the person who chose another path and not the one you literally described as “evil?”
and by not picking either “evil” you allowed the worse one to win causing additional harm and suffering, and you’re comfortable with that
you chose nothing thinking your inaction was the start of the great revolution that will fix the world
i’m thinking logic is not your strong suit
Once again the evil person is given a free pass here while you deride those who chose another path. These evil people have deluded you into thinking that every problem is a trolley problem to the point that you’re supporting genocide while trying to claim the moral high ground. Explain that logic…
In a real life trolley problem, you are supposed to blame the ones driving the train and tying up people to tracks, not the guy pulling the lever.
Yes not voting was stupid, but it’s dumber to actually think they hold the blame. The dems won’t even acknowledge being pro genocide was a bad move and it’s because they feel confident their base has been manipulated to blame a scape goat.
What kind of change are we to expect if we can’t even be vocal about something so ridiculous as supporting genocide even after most of us held the line and voted for it anyways. Keep them accountable and stop giving them an easy out.
You can be vocal about it and still vote for the lesser evil in order to reduce harm and save lives.
This is what almost every legitimate progressive voice I knew did.
It is what I did.
It is what every leftist I know did.
When will libs understand leftists are serious in their coalition building and stop existentially questioning the trustworthiness of our intentions?
Disagree with me, lets talk policy, let us hash out together the 1000 ways things were able to get this bad… but please fucking STOP categorically calling into question our intentions or ability to make the necessary play none of us are excited about. This is baby stuff, leftist discourse discusses this stuff constantly, terminally online leftists by and large get it trust me.
we voted for Harris
we voted for Biden
we voted for Clinton
The people who didn’t turn out to vote weren’t highly informed leftists and more importantly weren’t the kind of people who give a shit about hearing what terminally upset leftists had to say. If you think Sam Seder, Emma Vigeland, Krystal Ball and Kyle Kulinsky, The Rational National, Benjamin Dixon etc… had an impact on unengaged low information voters you are making an absurd leap of thinking… and they advocated for voting for Harris anyways, go back, check the receipts.
Most importantly, the ones who didn’t turn out to vote were in states that don’t matter anyway. Harris actually got more votes than Biden in most key swing states.
This is a thread about what Trump is currently doing and the most upvoted comment is blaming voters. I don’t know what alienating people after the election serves. It’s literally going to make sure they repeat the same behavior, doubly so if the dems feel confident enough to run on apathy a second time.
My point is that currently, most here seem to be vocal about the wrong thing. They voted stupidly but we’re goaded into it by a party that clearly does not represent its constituantes anymore. We should be asking the party to change but we are doing the opposite.
Exactly. The truth is that the current DNC is utterly incapable of actually winning a presidential election, and they have been incapable of it for more than a decade. 2020 was an anomaly; they won only due to covid. Fixating on Gaza will only ensure that the fundamental mistakes aren’t corrected and that Republicans win again in 2028.
It’s a fucking war. Sometimes the only option you get is to put off losing. We didn’t do that, in no small part because of idiot idealists who apparently refuse to understand a concept so basic even chimps get it. Now, thanks to that and SO much more, even being hopeful is approaching the realm of deluded fantasy.
I have no problem alienating people who think their own precious idea of morality is somehow so sacrosanct it can’t be compromised even to actually save the lives they pretend to care about.
Kamala/Biden were already losing before the Palestine conflict started. Palestine did not cause Kamala to lose the election. She could have used Palestine as a signal that she intended to truly strike out in a new direction, but she chose not to do that.
Unfortunately, that kind of radical break from the past was the only hope any Democrat had in 2024. People have this weird view that 2024 is an anomaly. It’s not. 2020 was the anomaly. Trump only lost in 2020 because of covid. If not for covid, Trump would have easily won in 2020.
You might as well be blaming Gaza for the Libertarian party not winning. The existing Democratic party is as nonviable at the presidential level as the Libertarian party is. The current Democratic leadership is fundamentally incapable of winning a national presidential election. They literally are not capable of it. They got lucky in 2020 due to a disaster of historic proportions, but in normal times, they are not capable of wielding a candidate that will win a presidential election.
Only radical change and reform in the DNC can change this. And this is ultimately why scapegoating the handful of people who actually stayed home due to Gaza is counterproductive. If you think Kamala lost in 2024 due to Gaza, you’re going to be sorely, sorely disappointed in 2028 when another DNC centrist fails to win, even when the Gaza issue is no longer on the table.
“It’s a fucking war that’s why we need to give them bombs, arms, jets, cash, and our full support. It’s our only option”
Look, I get it, and I’d be grieving too if I openly supported such atrocities, and it all turned out to be for nothing, but you’re eventually going to find yourself standing alone with the other RadLibs as nobody finds diet-Republican ideals appealing.
I feel like there’s very little chance you intentionally misinterpreted my comment, so in the interest of keeping civil discourse alive: what’s happening in Palestine isn’t a war, it’s a massacre, and I was referring to the nascent civil war and fascist takeover of the US when I said ‘war’ (and to the things like rampant persecution of LGB (and especially T) people, the open violence against the poor and minorities, etc.).
I did misinterpret you, and I agree with what you’re saying in this comment, but I don’t think people like Harris, Biden, or Clinton are on our side in this war, nor are the party leaders who pushed them on us.
I don’t disagree they’re not on our side, I just think they’d have been much less likely to plunge the country into a fascist hellscape and persecute the people I care about.
I won’t deny that it was a stupid move by the dems, but at the same time choosing to abstain from one of the most important elections in US history because you don’t want to choose between the lesser of two evils is just naive. Life is literally full of choosing between the lesser of two evils, inside and outside of politics. And I understand that the situation in Gaza is fucked up, but I also know that by abstaining it only made the situation worse. I know its not 100% their fault as there were many factors that led to Trump winning, but I personally don’t think betting with other people’s lives is altruistic. I think it’s selfish.
We tried gentle. Now we’re annoyed and venting because we’re powerless.
And we’re getting dragged into the muck by morons and one issue virtue signaling idiots who are no more informed than them.
What have you actually done about this genocide aside from not making the effort to vote for someone?
Have you made any phone calls? Written any emails? Visited any politicians’ offices?
Just fuck off. This was your choice.
Removed by mod
Why because I don’t blindly support and fiercely defend a strategy that tanked nearly three Democratic presidential candidates in a row?
Nah, it’s definitely going to work the fourth time. I’m back on board.
Removed by mod
You used that line already. Odd that such an intelligent being as yourself couldn’t formulate some new material.