I really hope that the EU introduces a global payment and banking system that is agnostic. I don’t want to be under MasterVisa’s thumb, and would prefer to keep the bulk of my money as Euros instead of American Dollars. Problem is, as an American, I can’t readily use Euros in my daily life.
Here’s hoping the EU can strike up a solution with Blue States, so that I don’t need to ask Musk for permission to buy anything.
So Europe is now saying what China and Russia have been saying for years? They gonna join BRICS next?
We got UPI in india and it’s amazing. You use it and feel like the rest of the world is living in the past.
Every country except US has an equivalent system tho.
The us has like 3 equivalent but not interoperable systems. They are all controlled by the same 2 people
Don’t let the Christians get up in there and dictate what you can and can’t buy with it
Christian conservative takeover of America is real
Yeah, that is what happened to DLSite. It sells Japanese media such as hentai, so Visa & Mastercard put a universal ban on their products, no matter the category. It is a 1st Amendment violation IMO, since they are gatekeeping an entire culture.
I can easily see MasterVisa banning European or Canadian merchants for the sake of a Trump Regime.
Please let’s think this ALL THE WAY: it is pointless to look for alternatives to the customer facing part if the backend still runs on US software.
We need European alternatives to the 2 American duopolies: Visa and Mastercard / Android and Apple.
Android is open source so any European company can just fork their flavor the same way Huawei did.
And there are alternatives to visa/mastercard but their local to each country: Cartes Bancaires in France, Girocard in Germany etc.
We also have MobilePay here in Denmark, Swish in Sweden, Bancomat in Italy.
But I am still dubious there is proper sovereignty in the whole stack each one of these run on.
Isn’t CB in France still running through visa/MC?
Nope, they just integrate visa/mastercard for international payments like most other European providers.
I’d love to see it.
Cashless payment is fucked. Using a phone to pay with? Sorry, only google wallet or apple pay, and in most cases only visa or mastercard. It’s only recently that that Danish “Dankortet” is getting support in those apps. Bit fucking late, but US led companies don’t give a fuck.
Samsung have their own wallet app, too. There are also a number of alternatives to Visa and Mastercard, but unfortunately, they are not as widespread or are limited to a particular countries banking system. In Canada, we have Interac, for example.
Yeah, but at least here in DK the banks have to “support” those wallets. And as far as I know, none of them do, it’s just Apple or Google. For reference the biggest bank in Denmark, “Danske Bank” also support Garmin Pay, but that’s for smartwatch NFC pay. (Also those products aren’t for plebeians like myself.)
I heard that Norwegians managed to open the Apple Wallet, so the iPhone can have an app that does it without Apple’s stuff :)
I would love to have an EU bank card. Hope we get one soon.
If anything, I’m really glad how Europe has stepped up and started cooperating more as a consequence of US actions these past few months.
The Chinese jokingly call Trump “Comrade Jianguo”, because of how his trade war has made China become more independent and stopped relying as much on American companies.
In the same way Trump’s latest tantrum seems to be good for the Europe.
Look into Wero. Only a couple countries and people to people payments for now, but should take off quickly as a universal Euro payement method
That’s the Trump bump! And it’s only been eight weeks.
Or is it hump 🤔?
Soon to be the Trump depression, but probably only for America.
If it is, it will be crippling. There’s enough misery on that country as it is; I don’t want to see people suffer even more. But then again, maybe a systemic shock rattles the building enough.
It’s about time.
Deny the money changer profit.
Take market share away from these parasites.
Too bad about crypto.
This is the exact kind of situation it was meant to deal with: finance independent of bad entities. But it’s such a dumpster fire…
I don’t think there’s a purer example of social media engagement hype, predatory capitalism, and disinformation ruining something neat so quick.
There is GNU Taler which is quite cool, but thats not really ready for use yet sadly.
Oh yeah, that seems really cool. The core premise is much more practical.
Yeah, money that expires is very practical
What?
Their very own FAQ says:
How to avoid digital cash expiration?
Taler e-money is issued with a validity period. One month before the expiration date, your wallet should automatically exchange any digital cash that is about to expire for new digital cash with an extended validity period. However, if your wallet is offline for an extended period of time, it may be unable to do so. Ensure your wallet is regularly online to avoid losing money due to expiration!
Their very own FAQ says:
How to avoid digital cash expiration?
Taler e-money is issued with a validity period. One month before the expiration date, your wallet should automatically exchange any digital cash that is about to expire for new digital cash with an extended validity period. However, if your wallet is offline for an extended period of time, it may be unable to do so. Ensure your wallet is regularly online to avoid losing money due to expiration!
Jesus, that sounds like a catastroph waiting to happen.
Depending on the length of the period and when that period starts.
People get sick, people get jailed, all kinds of events happen that can incapacicate you for extended periods of time
It really depends on the cryptocurrency in question. Some coins are much more credible than others. Lumping them all in together is like saying that the Japanese Yen and the Lebanese Pound are the same.
social media engagement hype, predatory capitalism, and disinformation ruining something
I mean, it still works for getting around Visa and Mastercard. For instance it can be used to make donations to various media piracy groups. It’s just that it’s so useful to scammers and many people see the technology as a whole as being one ‘brand’.
It’s more than a perception problem now, it’s a culture one within the crypto community (as far as I can tell).
Even if you treat the most prominent crypto as a utility, the sea of hype and speculation will affect you.
Maybe. I feel a bit out of the loop on “crypto community culture” because I understand that much of it largely exists on Twitter nowadays, and I don’t go there. Still, it is a functional solution for a money equivalent of encrypted communication.
Or Discord! And investment TV! It’s so cultish, it’s unreal.
I think this should be distinguished between “pure” crypto enthusiasts, in it for the utility, not speculation, which are probably like pink elephants now.
AI has a similar divide, where like 99% of the hype is on Twitter and TV with AI bros, but there are little niche communities messing with open weights, locally runnable models in a much more grounded way. /r/localllama used to be a hub for this (and there is a little branch on Lemmy), but unfortunately it seems to be getting strangled by Reddit enshittification .
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Doesn’t work when the valuation goes up and down like a yo-yo. You need same currency.
Unlike fiat currencies most of the credible cryptocurrencies have increased in value over the past 10 years.
Stablecoin is a thing. So is a system to control inflation.
The more pressing issue to me is the core premise: a totally anonymized but publicly recorded financial system makes no sense, especially when the user generally won’t grasp it. It’s just begging for thieves and scammers, and that’s what it got.
Monero exists. https://www.getmonero.org/
But if you can’t get rich, no one wants to buy it or use it. This is the conundrum of crypto.
Yeah, and that toxic idea has completely poisoned the well.
GNU Taler seems to be a good thing to look into. Not a crypto currency but a payment system which preserves anonymity of the buyer.
It has been a while since this appeared; I wonder if it picks up steam. Now or never?
Please expand it to Canada too. We need a real alternative to Visa, Mastercard, American Express and Discover.
Canada shares a land border with Denmark and a maritime border with France.
I think that is sufficient to include them in any extended EU schemes.
(To the degree that they want it, of course)
We also administer Vimy Ridge in France. While it isn’t Canadian territory, we have been granted permanent usage of it. It’s a little bit like a land border. :)
France shares a land border with Brazil, we should get them into the EU as well.
I can support this.
Brazil and Suriname back into the European world.
🇧🇷🇸🇷
Yes, more European colonialism. That worked out really well in the past…
Oh wait.
Oof, yeah, sounds bad when you phrase it like that.
Canada shares a land border with Denmark
🤔
A maritime border with France.
🤔
Canada shares a land border with Denmark
Brave men & women fought over Hans Island in the Whisky War, and the resulting land border is a testament to their bravery, livers, and the determination to find a longlasting solution to land disputes!
livers
👏
Isn’t that about that disput where everynow and then a group of military from each country would go up a hill, plant a flag and leave a bottle of booze, just for the other country to take it down and swap the bottle?
If so, I’ve seen less convoluted ways to make friends.
Yes. It was solved in 2022 by dividing the island by a natural rift. However it was also decided that anyone who come to the island can travel the entire island without border control.
Finally! Crazy bickering.
Hans Island in the Arctic for Denmark and Saint Pierre and Miquelon, which is a small island off the eats coast of Canada, which remains a part of France.
There’s Wero, a European alternative to VISA and Mastercard.
Is it? Doesn’t look like they offer debit/credit cards.
Looks more like a PayPal alternative.
It’s based on iDEAL, which we use in the Netherlands since 2005. All the Dutch banks are connected to it and when you pay, you approve the payment in your banking app or website, after which it’s immediately deducted from your bank account and the webshop gets an instant payment confirmation. Variations of this are also used peer to peer, for example for splitting the bill or when buying second hand stuff. You send someone a payment request (url) or show a QR and payments arrive instantly on your bank account, without any fees.
So indeed, even though it’s immensely popular and widely used, it’s not a full replacement for physical debit cards and it doesn’t offer credit.
Every country in the EU has some system for direct debit payments.
Italy has Bancomat, Germany has EC/Giro, France has Carte Bleue, Belgium has Bancontact/Mister Cash (still have not figured out whether they’re supposed to be different or just different names in Flanders and Wallonia), and so on and so forth.
Does the Netherlands not have such a system?
It used to be that people would use these within their own country, but there would be Maestro for payments around Europe.
MasterCard decided to discontinue Maestro for MasterCard Prepaid which has higher fees.
The Germans whined about it a little and said that Europe should have come up with its own payment systems, but nothing came of it.
By now we are also supposed to have SEPA Instant, that should offer Europe-wide bank transfers. I still have not quite understood why a debit card system can’t leverage that directly.
For debit cards we’ve always used Maestro for as long as I can remember. Nowadays new debit cards are usually Mastercard or Visa due to Maestro being discontinued, like you mentioned. Back in the days we also had a system called Giro cards, but then I’m taking about the time when cheques were still a thing.
There’s also the option to use direct debits from your bank account, which we use for subscriptions and utilities. This can be approved using iDEAL, same as with one-time payments. This doesn’t involve Maestro, Mastercard, or any card whatsoever. Most Dutch people only use debit cards in a physical stores.
We use iDEAL to pay taxes, the invoice of your house renovation, your Spotify subscription, your utilities, you name it. Of course instant bank transfers are also an option, but that’s basically the same thing, but with more effort and room for error.
Yup that’s the current state of it. They say they’re planning to add in-store and online payment options though
It’s a PayPal alternative, but developed in tandem with most European banks. That way, it will at some point also be used as backend for your normal debit and credit card payments, instead of VISA / MasterCard. If I remember correctly.
If only there was an encrypted permissionless way of sending money instantly, it’s cryptic nobody hasn’t invented a lite coin or moneyro like that.
Get out of here Charlie P
