- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
Among the reciprocal tariff levels Trump announced:
China: 34%
European Union: 20%
South Korea: 25%
India: 26%
Vietnam: 46%
Taiwan: 32%
Japan: 24%
Thailand: 36%
Switzerland: 31%
Indonesia: 32%
Malaysia: 24%
Cambodia: 49%
United Kingdom: 10%
Rest of the world: 10%
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Is he using a random number generator?
bamboozle them with bullshit
Imma just post this video here: https://youtu.be/5RpPTRcz1no
What the current administration is doing tracks with this video fairly accurately. Basically, “Network States” are what they want. It’s basically what exists in Honduras right now in the form of "Prospera, which is a network state that operates in that country.
The following quote from ChrisO_wiki on bsky
“@chriso-wiki.bsky.social Just figured out where these fake tariff rates come from. They didn’t actually calculate tariff rates + non-tariff barriers, as they say they did. Instead, for every country, they just took our trade deficit with that country and divided it by the country’s exports to us.” Just about sums it up.
Damn, I’d like to see the data on that.
No, it’s half the tariff those countries place on American goods. Or so he claims. I have no idea where those numbers come from.
He doesn’t understand what VAT is.
He doesn’t understand anything. Here’s what he said about income taxes and tariffs today.
They established the income tax so that citizens, rather than foreign countries, would start paying the money necessary to run our government
That’s one of the stupidest things I’ve ever read.
So far*
Today
by the way that was his first presidency too, he did the same thing.
And, for wrecking their business, had to bail the farmers out with the tariff money lol
That’s probably why you’re not the president.
LOL.
I’m not sure that that’s necessarily wrong. Excise taxes, import duties, etc. have been around for millennia. In the US, the income tax has only been around since the Civil War (which it was created to pay for).
Taxes on citizens have always been used to run the government those citizens live under. Doesn’t matter if it’s base on income or something else.
The only way to make other countries pay for your government to operate is to invade them and steal all of their resources… like Hitler did.
It’s really not worth trying to make sense of anything this guy says. He is the definition of a bullshitter.
Why would someone run a business exporting goods into a country if they couldn’t charge more than the cost of duties, labor, and materials for the goods?
Don’t forget land sales tax which happened a lot after the Louisiana Purchase and the Gold Rush.
It’s probably like his net worth, where “it goes up and down with the markets and with attitudes and with feelings”, “even my own feelings, as to where the world is, where the world is going, and that can change rapidly from day to day”.
https://money.cnn.com/2011/04/21/news/companies/donald_trump/index.htm
Like he would even know what that is.
Apparently ChatGPT.
“our country has been looted, pillaged, raped, plundered”
by other nations selling their goods to us cheaply, and by them accepting our Dollars that cost us nothing to make for it!!
I don’t think Trump understands the benefits and privileges for USA of having the top international reserve currency.
But maybe if he ruins it quick enough, he may find out?Play stupid games and win stupid prices.
One of my main rules of life is that people are most suspicious of the behavior they are most likely to perform. Cheaters think they’re being cheated on, thieves think everybody is stealing from them. If HitlerPig thinks everyone else is looting, pillaging, raping, and plundering, its because that what he does.
Buying from other economies does two things. One, you have access to their expertise/efficiency.
Not everyone will have invested in the same industry.
Will miss out on cheap labour. Cheap resources.
Don’t be dumb though, selling us USD for our products isn’t just “printing paper”. We use those USD (mostly we sell the debt to china) to buy USA companies. It’s capitalism after all.
A lot of people’s lives are about to get more expensive… again.
<butterfly meme> Is this winning?
China and Vietnam are producing a lot of the low cost every day items people use. It’s going to hit the lower income people the hardest. Thank goodness I’m in Canada.
Timu: shop like a billionaire because only billionaires can afford the cheap Chinese garbage.
Shit might hit the fan harder and faster in USA, but don’t be fooled: Canada and every other country in the world will be gravely affected: less trade, prices inflate, some goods become hard to find at all at any price, etc. US $ after all is the big reserve currency and all international trade was de facto protected by US military hegemony. Probably countries like North Korea or Iran will see least influence from all this… It’s insane to watch this happening. Their main goal really just seems to be to create chaos. And from chaos… rises whatever authoritarian state they want to create after declaring some state of emergency shit and after the superwealthy gobbled up all the failing companies at bargain prices. It’s like they’re organising a reenactment of the “shock therapy” that crashed the Russian economy on a speedrun after the soviet union fell apart.
Mainly American people’s lives. He’s basically making everything more expensive in USA that is not made in USA, but most things made in USA are dependent on imported parts, fertilizers, components, raw materials etc… This is going to be a mess to witness
You’re going to get tired of
winningtariffs.It’s winning for magats because they wanted to hurt people
I mean, this will suck in rhe short term, but these companies will exit the U.S. market if it gets to be uneconomical, and we’ll be fucked, not them. Trump’s I Am sO sMaRt comments all the time will make him look like an even bigger idiot than he already does.
If we actually want manufacturing in the U.S., give companies incentives to do business here. This is the opposite of incentives.
What is looking like more of an idiot than he already does going to accomplish? He’s the most idiotic politician in living memory, by far, and there are some absolutely colossal morons on that list. The people who haven’t figured that out are never going to. They will be praising him until the day they die.
Never underestimate the destruction that stupid people in position of power can do.
It isn’t quite that easy.
The US is a MASSIVE part of basically every luxury industry and isn’t insignificant in many others. So while alternate trading partners can be found to handle stuff like lumber, plenty of industries are going to be hit real hard and not have alternative customers. And they aren’t going to just want to lower their profits for national pride.
But yeah. I REALLY hope trump is just actively destroying the US either in the name of putin or just out of anger and spite over not winning in 2020. Because the alternative is that we are all going to suffer so fucking much because that piece of shit doesn’t understand what tariffs are.
Luxury goods are not really hit by tariffs nor taxes the same way more basic goods might be. A $ 4000 bag that goes to $ 4 500 is way more manageable for the kind of people who want to and can buy it (it may even make it more desirable for those who want and can’t buy it).
The effects of widespread tariffs is well known.
You will lose industry that makes high added-value products, and increase the production of products with low added-value. (Most people call this “deindustrialization”.)
Tariffs mostly don’t impact the overall trade balance, so there’s no reason to expect that one to change.
Except, for example many Canadians, who are really fed up with being the kick ball for American Presidents (Trump has a lot of company when it comes to tariffs), who will do their best to not buy anything from the USA. I predict our trade deficit will go in the opposite direction that Trump hopes. The USA still needs to buy electricity, gas/oil, wood, and various other raw products from Canada. We don’t have to buy finished goods from the USA since there are plenty of other countries to supply them. We really don’t need to vacation there.
AFAIK, most low added-value products the US net exports are food. Also AFAIK, Canada mostly doesn’t buy those, but the countries that do buy them won’t just stop.
And since we haven’t moved the needle on the minimum wage in decades, people will be making those low-added value products at starvation wages.
Well, yes, wages tend to decrease on that shift.
The glue eating rageaholic is doing the opposite of this. He’s going to tarrif farming EXPORTS from the US.
Never in our history has america had such a stupid president.
Wait, what?
If we actually want manufacturing in the U.S., give companies incentives to do business here
Like the CHIPS act? The EV and related items? Infrastructure? High speed rail (most of which has a made in us requirement)? What happened to those again?
The current administration is trying to pull the funding back even tho its been appropriated by congress. Funny how congress isn’t doing anything about it.
Conveniently left Russia out. I wonder why.
Russia and North Korea.
It’s official. We are the baddies now.
… Now?
Then too, also now.
If we can’t buy anythibg from North Korea, what would be tariffed?
He tariffed uninhabited Heard Island and McDonald Island tho
Just stopped pretending to be good.
I am not.
They are rest of the World. How dissrespectfull.
I think you’re reading too much into that.
They’re either under “Rest of world” like the EU, or the US doesn’t import anything from it, which as it’s under sanctions, it shouldn’t - nor export to.
UK is also 10% like the rest of world. Why was it mentioned seperately? It’s not like Russia is a small country.
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Read it some more, Russia is 10%. Half of EU
Like the EU?
Ironically crashing the economy is one of the best things you can do to slow down climate change
Lost my job this week at an engineering firm in green tech. Let it burn.
Trump will be remembered as the most influential US President.
Wrong.
The best things you can do are invest in green energy and energy storage projects, create polices that cap (and actually punish) carbon emissions, upgrade to more efficient infrastructure… All things that take money, a functional government and a functional economy.
What we learned from COVID, is that crashing the economy does not really slow down climate change, it just hits the pause button for a little bit, and then it resumes at the same or greater speed.
Sure, but he is just crashing Western economy as Russia is preparing to invade rest of Europe.
Boycott the USA. Do not consume American products. Do not travel to the US. Cancel your subscriptions, find alternatives or pirate their software and media. Make Americans tourists feel unwelcome.
But like, could I come visit if I need to seek asylum? That would be different than tourism, right? I’m not really happy or comfortable with the situation here, nor have my efforts been able to change other people’s views (e.g. make them think about consequences).
Ok to be fair… You may come as long as you’re a queer / trans baddie or if your name is Luigi, or take the “death to America” pledge. 😌
I’ll take that pledge without even visiting your country! Then again when I do!
Seriously though, this regime is terrible and some of us are protesting every opportunity we can get. I’ll be the first to admit America has deeply rooted problems but some of us are trying to fix it and would like to not be treated like shit for the actions of the magats
Admitting your country has problems is “woke”, though. /s
Deal. I stopped pledging “allegiance to the flag” over a decade ago when I realized this wasn’t a nation with “liberty and justice for all”. I’ll also bring some trans baddie friends with me.
Why would I say that? The country is already dead.
“Death to America” is no longer a call to action; now it’s just remarking on current events.
Immigrants are welcome, tourists as well.
Bless up Lemming, I’ll hit you up if things become desperate.
I’m an American, and I endorse this message.
Same. Got chickens, veg seeds, and I’m about to buy a bow for hunting my own meat. Fuck the US, time to crack out that survivalism I’ve been practicing.
Make America go away!
I’m doing my part! More to strengthen the EU, than to weaken the US, but: Cancelled all US tech subscriptions (not a small deal as a software dev). Cloud services all moved to Scaleway in France, AI migrated to Mistral, mail to Tuta, maps to Mapy.cz and more…
I get where you’re coming from, but the whole tourist thing . . . remember half of us fucking despise Trump and his merry band of fascist fuckwits.
Not sure about that part.
isn’t this just going to fuck up the US economy rather than meaningfully affect any other country? you don’t fucking produce anything worth a shit anymore.
Trump has no idea how the economy works, his wealth is propped up by Russian oligarchs laundering money through his assets.
This move is almost certainly being directed to him through foreign agents the traitor has as advisors (though they consider themselves handlers) on behalf of Putin and other regimes hostile to the US who back door’d their way into the situation through his greed and lack of morality.
Also intentionally crashing the economy to hurt political enemies and cause civil unrest (mass government firings = lots of educated qualified people out of work, also drives down wages of other educated qualified people). Techo-fascist corporate cities and Gilead don’t need a Dow Jones index.
It will have an effect on other countries, but fuck up the US economy the worst. Other countries have the benefit of having 190+ other countries to do trade with. Over the next few years, they will increasingly go for alternatives to whatever they’ve previously traded with the US. Thanks to the stable genius, the US will permanently be left poorer, while other countries will soon have economic growth again.
The overabundance doesn’t just vanish. When the poor have less, the wealthy have more. There may be more homeless people fighting over food but the billionaires will be able to get a fleet of yachts.
This is really not true. The wealthy aren’t playing 4D chess with the economy, they are just as short-sighted behind closed doors. The Great Depression fucked a lot of wealthy people up and turned the entire nation against them. It can happen again.
Edit - and for the record, the abundance does vanish in a depression scenario. Factories shut down, productivity collapses. The world will literally extract, refine, process, and build less of everything. You can’t build a fleet of yachts without a functioning economy.
The Great Depression fucked a lot of wealthy people up and turned the entire nation against them. It can happen again.
One might argue it already is happening. Right now. In real time.
Be safe.
Just like how a rising tide raises all boats, a sinking ship takes everyone down with it. The billionaires think being on the life rafts will make them more wealthy compared to those that are sinking.
He is gambling on the fact that Us economy can hold off longer than other countries and they’ll cave
It’s like two people holding their breath bad for both but neither wants to lose
Cave about what though?
Tariffs. Donald wants other countries to have less tariffs on American products
Those numbers on his poster are made up and don’t reflect actual tariffs that exist and can be cut.
Yep, they just took the trade deficit to each country and turned it into a tariff 😆
Most of the kit that is made in US uses parts distributed by other countries… So even domestic sales of US created products are likely to be impacted. Gotta give it to Krasnov, he’s doing a bloody good job at the task he’s been set.
Could you imagine if Biden declared what essentially amounts to a 10% sales tax?
Oh no. We produce stuff. The best weapons for killing people are made here.
And just like that every American good costs significantly more.
If your family income is less than about $200,000, congratulations, your tax rate has at least doubled.
How much do I have to make before my tax bill goes down?
Last I saw, it was 360k.
I have to get bigger bootstraps.
Well, at least I’ve got that, I guess
In case anyones looking at this and asking question like “Why has Cambodia been dunked with 49% when they’re clearly not a competitor to the US” or “Why is Trump claiming that the European Union has a 40% tariff on the US when the actual mean tariff on US goods into the EU is less than 5%”, here’s your answer to how these figures have been calculated.
- Take the US trade deficit with a given country (eg. China is $292bn)
- Take the total good imported by US (for China that’s $439bn)
- Divide the first figure by the second! Why? Who knows! It’s a number! Less talk more first grade arithmetic (if you’re still following that gives us 67%)
- That gives us a random number which we’ll pretend is that country’s tariff of US goods even though it’s completely unrelated in every way. We’ll divide it by two to get the new tariff rate for imports from that country. Why? Honestly if you’re still expecting there to be an answer to that question I’m wondering if you’ve been following. (that gives us 34%, well actually it gives us 33.5% but I’m not sure the Trump administration understands the idea of fractions so we’ll just round it up from there)
The “reason” behind this is that Trump seems to think trade deficits are really bad, which is bad news for the US because it’s had a trade deficit for the last 50 years. We’ll ignore the fact that based on GDP it’s been the wealthiest country in the world for that time though.
Anyway, just to give everyone an idea of how completely, utterly unrelated to anything meaningful that figure is, let’s take Cambodia. The country is very poor compared to the US so can’t afford to buy anything that the US manufacters (Cambodians aren’t driving round in Teslas or IMessaging each other). Some US companies use it for clothing manufacture because labour is cheap in Cambodia (see the previous bit about Cambodia being much poorer than the US). This means that Cambodia imports close to nothing from the US compared to what it exports, giving it a close to 100% trade deficit, so we wind up with a 49% tariff on Cambodia.
I genuinely don’t understand the mindset that looks at the US’s explotation of cheap labour in Cambodia and interprets the US as the victim in that relationship, but hey-ho maybe I’m just not biggly-smart enough to understand the 4d chess moves at play here. . .
Reference (because unfortunately none of what I said was made up and that geniunely is the calculation): https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/apr/03/trumps-idiotic-and-flawed-tariff-calculations-stun-economists
Edit: After making fun of Trump for not understanding the enconomy, I went and conflated per capita GDP with GDP. Doh! Now corrected.
They’ll be reverted as soon as he gets some flattery and palm greasing from the right people.
That’s all this was about anyway
And we’ll know exactly which countries bought him off
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So is the plan to drive the cost of everyday essentials so high that virtually everyone bankrupts and the billionaires buy all of our assets for pennies on the thousand dollars? That is all I can come up with trying to make a scenario where this has some coherent objective.
He wants to use tariffs (which act like a flat-tax) to lower income tax on the rich. There’s speculation he’s also doing something like the “Mar-a-Lago Accord,” which involves devaluing the dollar (causing inflation). If wages don’t rise with the inflation (which they don’t want), US labor will be more competitive, so people can work in factory jobs with pay analogous to current Chinese factory workers.
Project 2025 says he wants to have tariffs removed against the US. Assuming he’s really following it.
They probably want him to do it, but he’s too stupid to follow a script.
A poor America, with no friends in the world suits Vlad Pootang very well. It will be like the world has 2 Russia’s…
Some of the architects who helped win the second American civil war say yes:
Firstly, it is essential to squash the democratic myth that a state ‘belongs’ to the citizenry. The point of neo-cameralism is to buy out the real stakeholders in sovereign power, not to perpetuate sentimental lies about mass enfranchisement. Unless ownership of the state is formally transferred into the hands of its actual rulers, the neo-cameral transition will simply not take place, power will remain in the shadows, and the democratic farce will continue.
So, secondly, the ruling class must be plausibly identified. It should be noted immediately, in contradistinction to Marxist principles of social analysis, that this is not the ‘capitalist bourgeoisie’. Logically, it cannot be. The power of the business class is already clearly formalized, in monetary terms, so the identification of capital with political power is perfectly redundant. It is necessary to ask, rather, who do capitalists pay for political favors, how much these favors are potentially worth, and how the authority to grant them is distributed. This requires, with a minimum of moral irritation, that the entire social landscape of political bribery (‘lobbying’) is exactly mapped, and the administrative, legislative, judicial, media, and academic privileges accessed by such bribes are converted into fungible shares. Insofar as voters are worth bribing, there is no need to entirely exclude them from this calculation, although their portion of sovereignty will be estimated with appropriate derision. The conclusion of this exercise is the mapping of a ruling entity that is the truly dominant instance of the democratic polity. Moldbug calls it the Cathedral.
The formalization of political powers, thirdly, allows for the possibility of effective government. Once the universe of democratic corruption is converted into a (freely transferable) shareholding in gov-corp. the owners of the state can initiate rational corporate governance, beginning with the appointment of a CEO. As with any business, the interests of the state are now precisely formalized as the maximization of long-term shareholder value. There is no longer any need for residents (clients) to take any interest in politics whatsoever. In fact, to do so would be to exhibit semi-criminal proclivities. If gov-corp doesn’t deliver acceptable value for its taxes (sovereign rent), they can notify its customer service function, and if necessary take their custom elsewhere. Gov-corp would concentrate upon running an efficient, attractive, vital, clean, and secure country, of a kind that is able to draw customers. No voice, free exit.
The architects of clowndom. Seriously reading this stuff makes me feel like I am losing brain cells at a rapid rate.
Yup.
I’d love to open the news one evening and not feel like we’re another step closer to the apocalypse.
Honestly, fuck Trump. Where my Luigis at?
He was inside you all along
You can’t get close to orange fuck for anything like that. You gotta hope for a natural luigi to show up and say “time’s up bitch”
Not even via a trebuchet?
Trebuchets:
A superior siege engine for today’s trying times!
If Trump would be killed by a medieval seige weapon, then I will believe in god again.
Imagine he’s golfing and a fucking engine block of a 1982 Buick Regal comes sailing through the air from 200 meters.
One can only dream.
I love this idea, make it so fast that it just rolls right over his fat ass, but just enough to put him at deaths doorstep. 15 mins until total death. Put a report next to him. What does he say?
Reporter:
Mr. President, would you say that that trebuchet was reciprocal?
He missed.
Thanks for typing out the percentages, so far I’ve only seen emotional news reports about it without any detailed info.
Are these tariffs on ALL goods from a certain country? Eg, does 34% on China mean 34% on ALL Chinese goods or just certain ones like cars?
Well, one of two things will happen now.
-
The US economy will recede by roughly 30% over the coming years (classified by economists as “catastrophic collapse”)
-
It will turn out that trade was “fake and gay” all along and autarky is the way to go, despite centuries of historic lessons to the contrary.
Take your pick.
It’s all goods from those countries.
30% seems pretty generous. Nevermind the complete collapse of trade and alliances we built over the past century, won’t countries stop using the us dollar as the backing reserve? Which will likely set america on an even further downward trend, especially since the dollar isn’t on the gold standard anymore?
won’t countries stop using the us dollar as the backing reserve
Yeah. Putin’s gonna be so pleased.
I hope Euro takes over
BRICS will take over, which will benefit Russia and China. Putin is getting his money’s worth out of pimping Trump.
american juche now!
-
Trump: Meta will invest $500 billion.
Truth: Meta will invest around $60 billion.
Thats a gross mis representation of what’s factually correct in monetary terms.
This fucking asshat is going to sink the American economy. No major company is going to do this. Why would TSMC spend “$500 billion” to build a factory?
Them just paying the tariff would be less than building a new factory. They just need to survive trumps term and frankly, when the U.S. can’t get chips at an affordable price from Taiwan, those tariffs will fall away like a pillar f sand during high tide.
Absolutely dumbest fucking turd on the planet.
Americans will be paying the tariffs, not foreign companies.
Well they’ll also be paying it in reduced revenue lmao everyone loses
Lol no , if anyone thinks that its the best indicator that they dont know first thing about corpos … theyll just jack the end price
Yes, but when things are expensive people buy them less and corporations make less money
I think he was just making a point about how outsized the price of the factory was. Like even if they had to pay the tariffs, it wouldn’t be worth it to build a factory, so it’s double stupid of Trump to do this.
I wish TSMC would open a factory in Europe.
Not only would it be very advantageous for the EU, it would sting like hell for the US.
They are already building one in Dresden, others are planned to follow. The CHIPS act is at last having an effect.
Oh cool!
