If so, was it polled somewhere?
So I was just looking through literature.cafe a bit, and came across this excellent comment chain by Janvier. It outlines the history and culture of Hexbear, and makes a very solid argument for defederating them.
TL;DR- Don’t defederate Hexbear because they’re a bunch of genocide-apologist authoritarians. Defederate them because they’re annoying, and will burn out your moderators.
Hexbear recently federated with sh.itjust.works, I don’t know if it was polled on your side or what. But on Hexbear’s side there was a thread to discuss it.
Fuck the tankies over at Hexbear
Sucks for you guys. They caused nothing but trouble when they were still federated with Blahaj.
After so many of us complained about how they were being dicks and many on the instance weren’t feeling comfortable, hexbear decided to defederate from us first since they somehow said it wasn’t safe for their LGBT members to be on it.
Funny enough a few days later a new account started posting across different lemmy instances for days about how the Blahaj instance was anti trans and that the admin was too. Our Admin is openly trans :/
The whole argument started because the user said everything had to be political and wouldn’t stop insulting others who said they didn’t want to have every post on Blahaj to turn political.
It was just too perfect timing how a few days after hexbear defedarated for somehow saying the pro LGBT instance was anti-LGBT, that we got a brand new account attacking trans members while sayin they were anti-trans.
Enjoy your new people.
I don’t mind the general hexbear ideology in itself. Sure. You do you.
But, damn, I see more than a few of its members just being obnoxious.
I voted against it fwiw
They added us to their whitelist.
Yes and its very very annoying.
yeah people complaining about nothing gets real old
Hey, stop complaining.
Opinion of one of the admins regarding hexbear, just so you guys know where they stand:
In my view, the hexbear community is actually a positive force on this platform. They are frequently abrasive, but they ultimately have the potential to contribute to what we are building here. They are extremely active and some of them are quite intelligent. But they’ve also become accustomed to a privileged position on their own walled-in platform, and they need to be reminded that their views are considered ver extreme by the average person.
Hexbear is inevitable
I see a small corner of the lemmyverse…
I see your instance…
…alone…And a lot of defederations…
Jesus that’s a lot of defederations…
They’re just misunderstood. Uh, yeah, misunderstood. That’s it.
Just mention them once, sixty or so will be by promptly to “help” you “understand.”
…Then the rest drop by to see how much of a mess they can make of the relatively calm and sensible clusterfuck already present, because every question or comment absolutely must be met with a raucous cacophony of condescending crap.
I think this is just a matter of imageboard culture that just can’t / won’t mesh with general internet civility.
Leave Hexbear users to their spaces. My hands are washed.
Leave Hexbear users to their spaces.
Normally I’d be inclined to agree, but the problem is they don’t stay in those spaces; they regularly invade other instances en masse, harass its community members and pollute it with pro-Russia & China propaganda and genocide denial, then feign innocence and use their high percentage of LGBTQ+ users as a shield. It’s really fucked up, and it’s happening in all the major instances in the 'verse. I mean, you’re right, they’re not gonna mesh and aren’t meshing well with other instances, but that’s solely because they go to other instances and deliberately start shit. We are leaving them to their spaces; they just aren’t reciprocating.
general internet civility
I honestly do not know what this looks like
Either everyone calling each other hard r n-bombs, or everyone walking on pins and needles making sure that they don’t say something against the will of the zeitgeist.
Get fucked.
Please understand that I’m being completely sincere when I say that, judging from your post history, you should seriously consider taking a break from the internet to deal with your anger issues. When you spend your time lashing out at other people because of the instance they use, complaining about protests that are trying to prevent the implementation of policies which contribute to climate change, and hoping that other countries get destroyed by nuclear weapons because you don’t like their leaders, the only thing you’re accomplishing is increasing your chances of getting a heart attack
And you claim, hexbear users are the one misbehaving…
Them misbehaving doesn’t prevent the others misbehaving…
Just accept that it’s fine to be rude on the internet, that theres nothing you can do to stop it, and both sides can let this rest. Damn
buy us all dinner first
man, hexbears are so rude all the time for no reason!
Volcel police
No, tax investigation, special devision for cyber crime.
Thankfully. Y’all can seeth, I’m here for it.
Lol I blocked the most annoying posters from hexbear on this thread and now there’s hardly any comments. I think we should put them in time out. Like defederate for 15 days. if they keep brigading, another 15 days. I don’t really want to defederate, but I hate this kind of brigading.
This is such bullshit. Just saw the announcement that we aren’t going to defederate from hexbear. Why weren’t we given a say in this?
Pretty disappointing that @iamaqtpie is active on hexbear and says things like:
Please direct any seething that you may wish to do to the struggle session that’s well underway over here.
which reddit considered hate speech 🙄
Also disappointing that hexbear gets to vote federation, while we are left to federate to hexbear without a choice because the admins like the instance. Lame.
It’s clear that sh.itjust.works does not care to get community support in it’s decision making and we are left at the whims of the admins preferences. Isn’t this why most of us left Reddit? Because community say didn’t mean anything?
I appear to be out of the loop. What’s wrong with hexbear? I’m not familiar with the instance.
They’re just an annoying bunch of wannabe communists who sound incredibly smug and post a ton of stickers in comments. Having said that I’ve moved to lemm.ee when lemmy.world defeterated from hexbear.
Wannabe communists
There’s a lot to unpack in that one. First of all, how do you even gatekeep being a communist? Surely you don’t hold a degree in Marxist-Leninist thought? Nor are you a hexbear yourself.
Or perhaps since you have this perception that we are all petite bourgeoisie (mostly white) in the imperialist core that we can’t actually be communists (ignoring how paradoxical that is)
Perhaps communism in your mind is only for the “orient” and global south. Those in the “West” must just be play acting.
When you guys mention the imperial core, what are you talking about? DC? Hollywood? Wall Street? Brussels? London? Paris? Berlin? The Hague? Where is this imperial core you keep mentioning?
“imperial core” isn’t a phrase we made up. It refers to World Systems Theory, a theory of international relations invented by a guy named Immanuel Wallerstein which argues that imperial “Core” countries (think the traditional “developed” or “first world” countries. Mainly the US and Europe) have a particular extractive, colonial relationship with “Periphery” countries (think poor, raw material exporting, rentier states like Kyrgyzstan or Nigeria).
Then there are semi-periphery countries which are still tied into the imperial core in some way, but have enough sway economically and geopolitically to kind of stand on their own. They have a different kind of relationship to the imperial core, compared to the periphery (these would be the BRICS countries, largely).
That’s a gross over simplification, but hopefully that answers your question.
Edit: Here’s a really good explanation of World Systems Theory that goes into more depth
Wasn’t aware of this framework, thank you for taking the time to explain it :)
No problem!
Thanks for engaging in gold faith!
To be fair, colonialism is a human trait and it’s been proven in every large society time and time again. You think the current US/UK empire is bad but if you look in your own back yard it’s the same thing with a different spin.
It is inevitable, humans are destined for this. It’s unfortunate but it’s what we do.
That’s just the propaganda you’ve been fed. The world doesn’t need to be xenophobic or exploitative. These are learnt behaviors.
No man these are facts. Proven, hard irrefutable facts.
yeah but the thing is other countries’ policies didn’t inspire apartied and the nazis and their holocaust.
the US’s exterminationist and segregationalist The US did those thing
Hitler wrote in his diary how good america was at genociding its undesireables, and took it and ran with it
The United States: world leader in being the absolute fucking worst thing in human history since 1619
But that’s kind of my point. The CCP engages in almost identical policies and political strategy. It’s just under a different banner with a different mascot.
You think the current US/UK empire is bad but if you look in your own back yard it’s the same thing with a different spin.
I don’t think any non-Western country has enslaved a continent, refused to pay reparations for enslaving an entire continent, and continue to plunder an entire continent of its resources.
Japan, China, Persian empire, Egypt, Spain, US, UK, Cambodia, et al.
History is nasty, our goal should be to learn from it and not repeat it.
The imperial core is the countries that have been most involved in the imperialist plunder of other nations, so that would be the US, Canada, UK, France, Belgium, Germany, etcetera
Don’t forget China, Tibet?
Tibet was an oppressive theocratic slave society whose people China liberated.
Woo boy provide me a source for this one
China (see taiwan, tibet)
Russia (see crimea/ukraine)
Wow you just got dunked on.
Seethe
Tibet was a theocratic slave state before being liberated.
Neither the UN, the EUs member nations, the US or Taiwan thinks Taiwan is a country.It’s okay to be wrong, Taiwan is a beautiful country. Sorry if that makes you upset.
Note that they said “Most involved” Russia, for instance, has always been the modern “Sick man of Europe” since the fall of the USSR. It’s imperial aspirations don’t extend as far. And it’s relationship to the historic Core of the US and Western Europe, is as a semi-peripheral nation trying to coalesce a regional sphere of influence with itself as the center of gravity. None of that makes it a Core country though.
Maybe if the current world system collapses, and it filled that vacuum. But that hasn’t happened.
Imperial Core refers to the World Systems Theory of International Relations, first put forward by Immanuel Wallerstien. I would suggest you read up on the topic before making half-baked responses like this.
US (see native Americans)
Spain (see Cuba/ Mexico)
Wow you just got touchdowned on.
Canada (see indigenous)
Wow you just mega-mollywhopped inside of.
This is so adorable.
The Imperial Core was clearly on Coruscant.
RIP
did it blow up tho
You know how any time there’s a map where it colors countries who vote on UN resolutions, or countries where you can be thrown in jail for being poor, etc etc etc etc, you know how its usually a very similar map with US Europe and western allies on one side, and the entire rest of the world (the other 6.5 billion people) on the other?
Yeah, that teeny group that seems to always get its way controlling global politics is the imperial core.
Where is this imperial core you keep mentioning?
They prefer to be called The International Community™
And occasionally the “We make the rules, you take the orders” rules-based order.
Where is this imperial core you keep mentioning?
Probably start with where all the giant battleships come from: https://www.businessinsider.com/magnitude-of-us-naval-dominance-2013-11
Why does the USA need all those battleships if they’re not doing imperialism? Are they just cosmetic battleships? Just for shits and giggles?
They asked a question in good faith, and have since gotten it clarified. No need to be hostile.
I was answering his question, not trying to be hostile. I did not insult him at all. Just voicing my opinion.
Ok, so the imperial core is in DC to you, got it. The previous reply is more thoughtful than that.
Another user already explained world systems theory, but there’s also the school of global historical materialism, that analyses the relationship and structure of the imperial core/triad and the periphery/global south. Samir Amin was a leading figure in that, he also coined the term “Eurocentrism”. You can find quite a few recordings of his lectures for free on YouTube, or pirate his books (he’s dead now, so it’s not like he’d get the money anyways).
Imperial core = CCPs geopolitical enemies
I’ve grown up under a communist government in a socialist republic. So while I have no degree in Marxism-Leninism, I can assure you that all of my schooling was infused with it. Same goes for most of popular culture. I don’t despise communism, as is often the case with people like me, the idea is noble, if utopian. The ideology, like all ideologies, is scary for its intolerance and disregard of human nature. I will therefore gatekeep any pure ideolog, just to save my own faith in humanity.
I’ve grown up under a communist government in a socialist republic…
Huh? That’s a very roundabout way of describing a communist state. Where do you come from specifically? You can count communist states on your fingertips.
ideology, like all ideologies, is scary for its intolerance and disregard of human nature…
I don’t think that’s what the word “ideology” means. Also it’s dangerous and unproductive to off-handedly remark on “human nature.” It’s a bad faith psuedoscientific buzzword that’s rooted in uncontextualized historical analysis. Nothing happens in a vacuum.
I will therefore gatekeep any pure ideolog, just to save my own faith in humanity.
Again, I’m not quite sure what this means. I think you’re conflating a lot of things here that just don’t make sense and I dont want to make any assumptions about you. No community can ever be immune to reactionary politics, but thats not the same as rejecting “pure ideology”
If you put down the thesaurus and actually think about things you will perhaps start to understand. I grew up in former Czechoslovakia until my adulthood under the rule of the communist party until we overthrew them in 1989. The effects of that time are still with me. The human nature that came to light during communist rule would make your hair stand on end. All in pursuit of ideology. You can’t comprehend what you’re advocating for further than some utopian theory you read.
What? You have nothing to say now? I would appreciate if you stated your position to my replies to you.
Gonna be real, your smug levels are pretty high right now yourself.
My apologies, I was generalising. I’ve had perfectly normal interactions with hexbear users, but I also saw a bunch of very circlejerky threads populated by hexbear users which I found unbearable (or should it be unhexbearable?).
Can you give direct links? No one can discount your feelings but without any examples or evidence then we can’t understand.
Thank you for your open minded approach. Obviously I don’t save posts or comments that annoy me, but now I see one of those as a response to my comment (large gif/jpg with no text). Earlier today I saw a post about brigading that was stupid, but I’m not throwing all hexbears into the same basket, a bunch of the comments were completely nuts. I couldn’t find it again, instead I found this one: https://hexbear.net/post/502637 Again, it’s not a crime, people can circlejerk however they want. What really annoys me is when I come across a post where I’m interested in reading people’s opinions one the subject and the comments are filled with stickers. Strangely enough no other community does that.
If you’re familiar with CTH and the dirtbag left, Hexbear is where they went after being banned by Reddit.
For what it is when lemm.ee considered de-federated from them they flooded the instance turning a 200 comment thread into 1200. And lots of harassment. Edit: In case you wanted to read that clusterbomb of a thread: https://lemm.ee/post/4543536
I had to look them up but yep I do remember CTH. Thanks for the answer, I’ll keep an eye out.
Lots of tankies from what I’m seeing, they’re the “alt-left” if you will, they believe in just as much weird stuff as the alt-right but are on the left side of the spectrum… Heck they end up meeting on many things…
Could you provide an example of Hexbears agreeing with the alt-right about something specific? I think a lot of people conflate “disagreeing with the liberal consensus” with “thinking a MAGA thing” when they’re really pretty different.
They are pro Russia.
Hexbear is very categorically not pro Russia, we’re just not pro West
I can’t hear you, the Arms Deliverys to Ukraine are to loud!
Fuck you people. You are pro China and Russia.
We are pro China, we are not pro Russia
Same thing.
Taiwan is a Country
you’re literally pro-nazi and you’re complaining about us lmao
Lmao go further supporting genocides.
When being “not pro west” means not analyzing the conflict but simply adopting the same point of view as Russian propaganda just because Ukraine is supported by the west then yeah, you’re pro Russia.
What are you talking about? We have a huge incredibly active news mega that does analysis daily. The fact that we are as sceptical of western media as we are of russian is a good thing. You shouldn’t just uncritically swallow state department propaganda. You should investigate claims made, instead of just accepting them.
What is the Russian propaganda that we’re repeating in regard to Ukraine?
Why can’t you see the difference? We see the west and Nato as having propagated and profited off of this conflict. Russia is guilty as well as Ukraine in fanning the flames of war. But peace is a far better alternative to war and far better than flooding the area with weapons. Weapons that will continue to do damage long after hostility ends. Pro Russia How?
When being “not pro west” means not analyzing the conflict
Just like you analyzed our news megathreads from the last year to make this assessment?
It just fucking baffles me how people from other instances feel so comfortable talking shit straight from their ass. I just don’t understand the mentality. It’s fucking slimy. You can just do that shit and you don’t feel dirty?
Go into the news mega and post your “analysis” we would love to see it
No thanks, I’m not into brigading :)
Why do you think it is impossible to just dislike two things at once?
Mostly about China and North Korea.
Alt right and alt left both deny Uyghur camps, and think Kim Jong Un is pretty awesome.
In my experience alt right folks are pretty anti China, to the point where that is often the reason they oppose the Ukraine war, as it is dividing the attention of the Christian west from the rising, menacing Tigers that threaten white society.
Hexbears are often skeptical of Adrian Zenz who is usually the source of claims about China. Most that I’ve seen acknowledge that there are camps (China openly says it is running programs to deradicalize separatists and fundamentalists in the region), but disagree that they are as bad as western media depicts them, and would probably argue that western nations are concern trolling about the issue regardless because it is easy to question whether American foreign policy is motivated by concern for Muslims. Genuinely curious, who is an alt-right guy who doesn’t think there are camps in Xinjiang? I’ve never encountered a pro-Chinese reactionary.
As to Korea I thought MAGA types just memed about Kim Jong Un because Trump sort of got along with him. Hexbears think that the Korean War was bad and that Korea is acting predictably given that a nuclear power is constantly threatening them with annihilation. There are a variety of positions in Hexbear on the DPRK though, and I can’t really account for all of them, but I think they arise out of a genuine anti-imperial and anti-war sentiment, and a healthy doze of skepticism of western narratives of a state enemy. I don’t think you could say that for the alt right.
Alt right and Liberals both hate China
Trump derangement syndrome is all too real and the proof is how liberals reacted to him trying to end the Korean war.
Same thing with Afghanistan.
