A couple hours before I was on the edge of getting a Fairphone 5 but I read the specifications and didn’t see 3.5 mm audio jack anywhere. So I thought to myself…why? The community has been requesting this for a couple years ago now so why not. They’re already making money on the phone, they’re really pushing for people to get their wireless headphones? Just add the headphone jack, shouldn’t be too hard.
They said they’re treating their workers fairly, sourcing from ethical sources, renewable claims, repairability claims, and supporting foss projects (they donated a fp4 to CalyxOS to support development). All of these are amazing, so adding a little headphone jack shouldn’t be that hard in the grand scheme of all this.
*Add the headphone jack and I’ll be happy to support and get a fp5.
They said they’re treating their workers fairly, sourcing from ethical sources, renewable claims, repairability claims, and supporting foss projects (they donated a fp4 to CalyxOS to support development). All of these are amazing, so adding a little headphone jack shouldn’t be that hard in the grand scheme of all this.
lol wtf
All of those things seem vastly more important than a headphone jack!
I’m not discounting their achievements but if they truly want eco friendly in mind then they would retain the headphone jack so people don’t have to buy adaptors or get new wireless headphones they didn’t want in the first place.
I guess? Seems incredibly minor lol
It would seem so, but it’s also arguable that by removing the port, you are forcing customers to buy wireless headphones that are much more harmful to the environment, something that goes against their motto of eco-friendliness.
You can still use an adapter! Who is forcing you to buy wireless headphones???
Why not no adapters in the first place? They are still an extra thing to carry, not to mention how easy it is to lose or break them.
I can’t imagine that being too much of a hassle when the adapter is affixed to your wired earbuds which you already carry.
Can’t speak for other people, but I myself have multiple IEMs, and would use it on my phone and PC. The dongle would not be fixed at all times in my example.
I guess I care more about workers and fair trade, but that’s a fair point. Wired earbuds are just copper whereas wireless use lithium and whatever minerals Bluetooth requires.
Don’t mind the downvotes. Fair trade and eco-friendliness are both important, but sometimes you can’t get both. Gray area exists, and I don’t judge anyone who places one before another. Provided they understand both of course.
Wireless earphones/headphones are more expensive and sometimes inconvenient. People defending companies say “you can get a pair of wireless buds for like 20 dollars” you can, but how much are they going to last and how shitty will they feel and sound? Even when buying them for a high price, their batteries will wear out. The worst thing is adding this port doesn’t affect you in the slightest if you don’t use wired headphones, so couldn’t you just shut the fuck up if that’s the case?
One thing people don’t/forget to mention, is that the microphones in even earpods tier wired earphones will sound infinitely better than most mics in Bluetooth headphones, even in the multiple hundred dollar tier range.
Also, you won’t be forced to go into crappy mono sound mode when on call using Bluetooth headphones. When I use BT headphones with my laptop, I almost always use the integrated mic on the laptop instead of the built in ones in the headphone due to this.
That is just plain wrong. Phone calls are always mono. Also, audio quality via bluetooth can easily be as good as over wire, and many bt headphones have great microphones.
I know phone calls are always mono. The reason I mentioned laptop use is because I could also play other stuff in the background along with the phone call, and forcing the headphones into Bluetooth phone call mode makes the overall audio quality crappy. That’s why I use laptop integrated mics to keep the headphones in stereo mode.
This isn’t a discussion about wireless vs wired though, this is a discussion about whether or not an ancient standard that has already been replaced should be reintroduced just because some people have been using that standard for a long time…
There are USB wired hearphones, there are even adaptors for your old 3.5 mm jack devices, so how is this about wireless vs wired?
IMO, once phone manufacturers decide to remove headphone jacks from their devices, the discussion of wired vs wireless is inevitable since you are forcing customers to make a choice/sacrifice. Headphones very much still use 3.5mm jacks, especially in high end headphones where there are also other types of plugs for balanced audio. Wireless tech is not going to replace it anytime soon, and headphones that end with a USB port are few and far between. Although there are solutions out there like dongles and Hi-Fi Bluetooth receivers, to some they are still an extra thing to manage, while with a built in headphone jack all of the hassle would be gone.
There are arguments saying the headphone jack takes up too much space which could be made room for something else like a bigger battery and more components. To that I say to take a look at the iphone 6 or phones nowadays that still retain the headphone jack. Absolute disgrace that everybody has jumped off the cliff with Apple.
Wireless headphones aren’t the only available option… There are USB earplugs and there are adapters. The only argument you have is “but I can’t charge my phone while listening to music”…
Yes but I have audiophile headphones that I used to be able to use on on my phone without needing a dongle which I lose and need to replace everytime I plug the headphones into something else Can u name a solution for this that doesn’t involve replacing dongles constantly
It’s useless to argue with this guy, he’s just going around shouting that the audio jack is obsolete, doesn’t even know what obsolete means and is just throwing a hissy fit.
He can’t name a solution, it’s just everyone’s else problem that we want to use the better option.
One thing that saddens me as someone from a third world country when I see people with that attitude and supporting the corporations’ decisions, is that I see how much we are fucked and we don’t matter at all.
Any earphone option besides the ones with the jack are more expensive, even USB ones. Wireless phones are much more expensive, and the ones we can afford become defective so fast.
It’s also sad to see people telling how the common stuff around me is obsolete. Well, I get it, we’re the global waste from a capitalist view, but it still hurts to see it in action. (I wonder how people around here would react if they knew that microusb is still widely used around here and a lot of people don’t even have type c cables)
In the end, companies will do anything they want and people will support them blindly. I just hope my current phone lasts for a good while, because not only I can’t afford a new one, but, if I can’t get one with an audio jack, I will simply have to listen to anything aloud for a long time.
You can say that something is obsolete when a superior alternative is created, and is widely available.
E.g. you can say that cassettes are obsolete because cds exist, or that cds are obsolete because of streaming (arguably), but saying that one of the most widespread and reliable connectors is obsolete just because you think it’s old is just an idiotic thing to say.
On one hand i welcome what fairphone and also nokia, motorola and others are doing, making replacement parts available to the general public, but still i think Fairphone are huge hypocrites as of right now because of their choice and lame justifications. I expect this crap from apple, not from the “bastions of repairability and sustainability”
Can u name a solution for this that doesn’t involve replacing dongles constantly
No, but I don’t get why anybody owes you a solution… We are talking about smartphones here, not professional audio devices… Most people don’t care about using professional studio headsets with their smartphone, so I don’t understand why you expect smartphone manufactureres bending themselves over backwards just to satisfy a small minority of people like you when that would mean that 90% of people now have a plug that they never use…
I’m guessing you never lived through the iPod/MP3 player era? You do not need a professional audio device to enjoy music. Most people would happily live by with a crappy $20 earbud.
You have to remember that not that long ago, every phone used to have a headphone jack built in. It wasn’t until Apple created the problem of removing the headphone jack, and created the solution in the Airpods (which generated massive amounts of profit), that other manufacturers followed suit. It never was organic.
I think there are even dongles that let you charge while listening to music.
sony still retains headphone jack on their flagship phone
I love my Xperia 1 IV! Expandable storage, headphone jack, great camera, no god aweful screen cutout, and a notification led!
I like my xperia 1iii. But, the main problem is fingerprint sensor is prone to break. But, it’s ok.
fingerprint sensor is prone to break
How so? Are you noticing problems with it?
It just doesn’t working after couple of months
Wow that sucks.
I’m assuming that you’ve gone through all the troubleshooting steps already, so I won’t bother you with that.Edit: sending it back to repair is probably hard too, since Sony’s market share is so low compared to Apple/Samsung, I imagine it would be harder to find a place that fixes them.
So I thought to myself…why?
Why? There are various arguments as to why the old audio jack standard is obsolete, but this discussion was essentially settled with the Fairphone 4, which was the first one that did not have a headphone jack. And they released a detailed article describing their reasoning…
https://support.fairphone.com/hc/en-us/articles/9836188988049-Audio-jack-3-5mm
The community has been requesting this for a couple years
The community? It’s not as if Fairphone just willy nilly decided to get rid of the headphone jack, this was done with feedback from the community in mind… Just because you are loud and passionate doesn’t mean that your opinion is the only one that represents the community’s… As a fairphone user and “member of the community”, I say fuck the 3.5 mm jack… It’s an ancient standard that was obsolete years ago,
And just to be clear, this isn’t a discussion about wireless vs wired earbuds. You can have wired USB earbuds, you can even use your old 3.5 mm jack headphones with an adaptor. This is a discussion whether we should switch back to an ancient and inferior standard just because you are used to it…
Just add the headphone jack, shouldn’t be too hard.
And this entitled and wilfully ignorant attitude will make people take you even less seriously… You can’t “just add the headphone jack”, decisions like that have an impact on all of the design of the device and have to be carefully evaluated… You simply going “come on just do it, how hard can it be” will not convince anyone…
The only ignorant answer i’m seeing is from yourself.
The headphone jack is an inexpensive small connector that offers far better quality than bluetooth does (i.e. lossless audio), is universal and is a really inexpensive feature to add to a device.
The ONLY reason it has been removed is to push the sales of wireless headphones and earbuds. Fairphone got rid of it and soon after started selling bluetooth devices. And you just bought the marketing. As for the usb adapters, those are an extra point of failure and easy to misplace.
For all the good things Fairphone did, this is a really shitty one. If Sony can keep the jack on all their devices, anybody can, and the rest are excuses.
You don’t like the jack? You can just keep using bluetooth.
Their responses address commenters directly, with an apple-esque “you are doing it wrong” attitude, instead of focusing on the actual subject matter - the 3.5mm jack itself. It’s not really a discussion, it’s much more comparable to victim blaming and trolling 🤷♂️. People are looking for a discussion, not an attack thinly veiled as a “solution”. No point engaging IMO.
Regarding the actual topic though, I’m fully in agreement with you.
Here’s why I don’t feel as if bluetooth or dongles are an appropriate replacement: https://lemmy.one/comment/2684726
Since then I’ve also realised driver & codec support will slowly become a big issue as we move forward with dongles and bluetooth headphones, especially for people who prefer to keep their devices for longer
Some people will just swallow propaganda, and defend corporations even going against their own interests.
To be clear, i’m not against bluetooth audio, heck i even have a set of high end Jabra earbuds, but those are not a substitute for my AKG k702 or my Audio Technica M40x. Having an audio jack is about having an option, and we know companies are lying through their teeth because somebody managed to add an audio jack to an iPhone without losing any functionality at all.
Some people will just swallow propaganda, and defend corporations even going against their own interests.
Or maybe some people just don’t care about using their smartphone as a premium audio device? The audio jack on a smartphone servers no purpose to me, it hasn’t for years before smartphone manufacturers started moving away from it. It’s nothing more than a unused plug that can potentially break and whether you like it or not, most people nowadays have the same opinion as me…
There was a discussion to be had back when apple started to push for it, one can even argue that this was forced by apple before it’s time. But we aren’t talking about that, we are talking about today, about what should happen with this upcoming phone that is supposed to be functional for 10 years…
The idea that they should reintroduce a standard that has since almost completely disappeared in the smartphone world because a small minority of people want to connect professional studio headphones that are about as expensive as the smartphone itself is absolutely ridiculous…
unused plug that can potentially break
They don’t break if you don’t use it… They are probably more resilient than USB-C ports.
It’s not always for professional headphones. I for example just want headphones that I don’t have to charge, don’t have to go into the settings if I want to use a different one, and doesn’t occupy the USB port so I can charge when the battery dies while watching Youtube
with an apple-esque “you are doing it wrong” attitude
You make it seem as if it was just apple that wants to get rid of the 3.5mm jack in the smartphone market, which is simply not true… I don’t care for apple at all and I don’t see what apple has to do with this discussion… That discussion has already been had, back when the fairphone 4 was released, but some people still make the exact same arguments as in the years before…
focusing on the actual subject matter - the 3.5mm jack itself
The subject isn’t whether the 3.5mm jack itself is a viable standard… The subject is if it is a viable standard for modern smartphones… And by now, the direction is clear…
I don’t see the 3.5mm jack disappearing completely anytime soon, but in the modern smartphone world, I don’t see a reason why we should cling to the 3.5mm jack when we already have USB as a standard that has the same functionality… Especially now, when the switch has already happened…
Here’s why I don’t feel as if bluetooth or dongles are an appropriate replacement
Great, but can you also tell me why USB cable headphones are not an appropriate replacement? This is what I find so frustrating about this discussion, people always pretend that the options are either keeping the 3.5 mm headphone jack forever or using bluetooth headphones…
USB headphones is yet another product manufactured with a narrow usecase, the audio world by and large outputs to either 2.5, 3.5 or 4.4 every step of the way. USB is completely phone centric.
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Lack of a unified USB standard, meaning you will still have to deal with adapters to have compatibility across all devices. My PC for example only has USB A, my phone has lightning, my wifes has usbc, many peoples office PCs will also not have USB C just yet, although it does become less common to have a device without USB C.
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USB output is digital, that means that you need to convert it to analogue, so your headphones need to put a DAC into them or the wire.
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In many cases of headphone use you will actually not want the USB such as working with them in professional environments where you will be plugging them into an audio stack, where the autput is analogue already.
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Some headphones need an AMP so power straight off the USB is not an option.
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Balanced output.
A standard jack covers most usecases, headphones will never move to USB standard, they are analogue devices and should not have to have USB support on their end.
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I personally don’t care too much about the headphone jack (or lack thereof) when buying a new phone. That being said, for someone that doesn’t care all that much about audio quality, Bluetooth headphones are just fine, and I prefer having a more water resistant phone (maybe I just bought into the marketing on that point, but it seems harder to waterproof a phone when there are holes in it, though the usb port is still there as a weak point so…)
I’ve just accepted that the lack of headphone jack is the new norm.
Yet the samsung galaxy s5 existed and had the same ip rating (ip67) as the iphone 8.
All while maintaining both the headphone jack and a removable battery.
All excuses are just that, excuses. They wanted to remove it to profit from the sales of more expensive buds.
One day smartphones will be small chips implanted into our brains and you people will still complain that they don’t have a headphone jack.
The headphone jack is an inexpensive small connector
It’s still an unnecessary addition to modern smartphones that has an impact on design, etc…
offers far better quality than bluetooth does
And once again, you ignore what I wrote in my comment and try to turn this discussion into a discussion about “wires vs wireless/bluetooth” when it’s obviously not…
As for the usb adapters, those are an extra point of failure and easy to misplace.
If using an adapter is too much of a hassle for you, get a wired USB headphone… It’s funny, you pretend that the only viable options are either bluetooth or an obsolete standard. We already have a new standard… We had it for decades now… And it’s already built into and used with virtually any modern smartphone. But no, because you are used to your old standard, you demand that the old standard is still used in addition to the new standard…
If Sony can keep the jack on all their devices
This isn’t about what we could and couldn’t do… We could go back to using cassettes if we wanted to, there just isn’t a good enough reason to do it as far as most people are concerned…
Look at your comment, you can’t give me a good reason for your argument. Your only argument is “but it’s not that much of a hassle” and “everyone used it in the past so we should continue using it”…
You don’t like the jack? You can just keep using bluetooth.
I can just use bluetooth, or I can just use USB. So can you.
But can you give me one argument why we should, in addition to having both bluetooth and USB interfaces on our smartphones, have an additional plug using a standard from the 1950s that we can ONLY use for audio when we already have to have a USB plug that can also be used for audio?
No, just because you say “it is obsolete” doesn’t make it so.
Yes, i’ll give you my argument. The headphone jack is an industry standard, has been for decades and will be for much more time. Audio equipment, recording interfaces, anything that has a minimum of quality standard uses wires and jacks.
The 3.5mm jack adds 0 latency and allows for much, MUCH, higher audio resolution and don’t have to compress the audio before allowing you to hear it.
The usb plug is just a stupid cop out. It’s not really a standard, is something that was born as an excuse. Why should i have a more fragile connector that has to rely on electronics when i can use a cable that i can fix myself if it breaks? Also, please point me in the directon of some high end headphones with a usb connector. And i mean high end, reference quality, not some brandless crap from amazon.
Because Fairphone are arguing in bad faith. If they were really concerned about repairabilty, they would have kept a reliable and easy to fix jack instead of selling overpriced bluetooth earbuds.
If anything, this whole ordeal is a constant reminder that corporations are not our friends, and that some people will somehow just blindly defend them.
No, just because you say “it is obsolete” doesn’t make it so.
It’s not obsolete because I say so, it’s obsolete because it has no function that cannot be replaced with USB, an interface that is already present on every modern smartphone…
The headphone jack is an industry standard, has been for decades and will be for much more time
The fact that we have done something in the past or had a certain standard is not a good argument for keeping it indefinitely…
It’s not really a standard
Of course it is… Apart from the Iphone, every smartphone has an USB C interface… Yes, it is kinda a mess with differences in quality etc, but as far as the interface goes, USB C is the standard nowadays…
Why should i have a more fragile connector that has to rely on electronics when i can use a cable that i can fix myself if it breaks?
It’s already there… Even if you have a modern smartphone that still has a 3.5mm jack, you still have to have a USB port to charge your phone, etc… So the actual question is:
Why should a modern smartphone have an additional 3.5mm audio jack that servers no function other than audio when that function is already taken care of with USB (or wireless)? I can see an argument if we were talking about audiophile tech, but we are talking about smartphones…
Also, please point me in the directon of some high end headphones with a usb connector. And i mean high end, reference quality, not some brandless crap from amazon.
What do you mean with “high end”? “Audiophile stuff”? The focus is obviously on wireless stuff nowadays because most people don’t care that much about audio quality, especially not when listening on their phones, but there are USB headphones:
https://www.androidcentral.com/best-usb-c-headphones
Because Fairphone are arguing in bad faith. If they were really concerned about repairabilty, they would have kept a reliable and easy to fix jack instead of selling overpriced bluetooth earbuds.
Why? It’s just another additional port that can break… I’m sure selling wireless earbuds played a role in their decision, they are a business after all, but that doesn’t mean that it was the only factor in their decisions or that there aren’t viable reasons to move away from the headphone jack…
If anything, this whole ordeal is a constant reminder that corporations are not our friends, and that some people will somehow just blindly defend them.
Of course corporations aren’t our friends, they are businesses… And you can imply that I’m “blindly defending them” if you want, just as I can claim that you are blindly clinging to an outdated standard that has by today virtually completely disappeared in the smartphone world and that there would be no benefit in bringing it back…
Why? It’s just another additional port that can break…
That’s a pro, not a con. If I break my 3.5mm I can still use USB or bluetooth. But I will not break my charging port with headphones
How is it obsolete, I understand a lot of people not needing it but all Audiophile products still need a physical connection in the form of 2.5, 3.5 or 4.4mm jack. 3.5mm has been a standard for the longest time.
I’d rather have that instead of a additional adapter to connect my iems. Only benefit in my case was that it allowed me to use a balanced connection for the same added cost.
Pfft, real audiophiles will use a DAC or a DAP
Although I’m not willing to carry something additional to my phone and earbuds to listen to music.
You don’t need a DAC if the phone has a jack, you only need one if it doesn’t, you might need a DAC/AMP for some headphones but most cans people will carry on the move will run just fine off an inbuilt jack.
Not the biggest priority while mobile, wired would have a bigger impact except high impedance or low sensitivity gear.
How is it obsolete, I understand a lot of people not needing it but all Audiophile products
In my opinion, it’s obsolete or outdated standard when it comes to modern smartphones.
I’d rather have that instead of a additional adapter to connect my iems.
Of course adapters are not an optimal solution, but again, USB headphones are a thing… I definitely see the argument for wired headphones over wireless headphones, but I don’t see a reason why we should use 3.5 mm audio when we can simply use USB, which is an interface that is already the standard…
3.5mm is an audio source, USB is a data source. Any headphone with a USB plug also has to convert digital to audio, something your phone already does. USB is not a replacement by any means.
USB headphones
Audiophile grade gear are meant to be connected to variety of devices through a standard. I’m not asking for a cheap usb headphone just to remove a cable. You’re solving the wrong problem here.
the old audio jack standard is obsolete
Funny you say this because I’m using one as I write this. Why? Because simply plugging in my headphones into the phone is way faster then connecting ones using bluetooth, because I just have pair of small cheap headphones in my backpack and because I wanted to listen to music now. Yes, I have BT headphones but those are big (over the ear headphones with big case) so I left them at home. Yes, I could get spare, small BT headphones but those are way more expensive and I would have to remember to charge them. Also, if I forget to bring headphones to work desktop support can give me a pair… with 3.5mm jack. So I’m also avoiding phones without a jack and it’s not because I’m stubborn. It’s because every now and then I still find myself using it. The day I stop using it I will be ready to get a phone without it.
Funny you say this because I’m using one as I write this.
You using obsolete technology doesn’t make it any less obsolete…
Because simply plugging in my headphones into the phone
Why do you keep trying to turn this discussion into a discussion of wireless vs wired? I’m not saying wires are obsolete, I’m saying the 3.5 mm standard is obsolete when it comes to modern smartphones because it’s a standard from the literal 1950s (which is ultimately based on a standard from the 1800s)…
I don’t have a 3.5 mm headphone jack, yet I can simply plug my wired headphones in using a wire too and just use it without bluetooth… And I can use the same standard plug you too have in your phone already… Why do we need an additional interface just for headphones when I can use the one that I already need to have in the first place?
You using obsolete technology doesn’t make it any less obsolete…
obsolete (adjective) No longer in use.
It does actually. The fact that I can go to literally any electronics store and choose from dozens of different 3.5mm jack headphones, the fact that my laptop, my PC, my BT headphones and my phone all bought within last 2 years have 3.5mm jack interface literally proves that it’s not obsolete, it’s still in use. I would say that in the near future it will slowly become niche (jack interfaces will be in use in musical instruments for a very long time. find a entry level electric instrument with BT please) but it’s definitely not obsolete. You’re making things up.
Yes, with time more and more people will buy USB-C headphones, it will become a standard and dropping jack will not be an issue but the problem is phones makers, following Apples stupid idea, started doing it first. One of phone’s functions is being a portable music player. Why start removing jack where they are used the most? I wouldn’t complain if my BT headphones used USB-C for wired play, they came with non-standard cables anyway. I use my PC with BT headphones (almost) exclusively, I wouldn’t care if it dropped the jack. People complain because with phones they are losing function they actually used, not some obsolete port no one was using any more.
While I share your disgruntlement, this is both cheap and easy to use. Should you have to use it? No. Would needing it stop me from getting a phone I otherwise wanted? Zero chance.
Oh, I agree. If it came down only to mini jack or no I would just get the phone and the dongle. The thing is, when I’m looking for a new phone, I check the price, if it’s LOS compatible, if it has pinhole camera, how long will it be supported and so on. When I’m down to couple of equally good options and some of them are ‘dongleless’ I will go with that. It’s a small issue but it’s not a non-issue.
obsolete (adjective) No longer in use.
And once more it turns into an argument about definitions… I thought it was clear from context, but I’m using “obsolete” here to mean “old fashioned” or “outdated”, a perfectly viable way to use the word “obsolete” if you ask me… And I mainly used it because as I mentioned, this discussion was settled with the previous fairphone… Perhaps a better word to use is redundant and/or outdated.
The fact that I can go to literally any electronics store and choose from dozens of different 3.5mm jack headphones
The jack has been THE standard for decades, arguably centuries… Frankly, I am surprised how fast the smartphone world switched. But of course it doesn’t disappear over night, but that doesn’t make it any less outdated/obsolete or whatever word you want to use here… And there will still be viable headphones with the 3.5 mm audio jack, just not in the smartphone world… That’s why I wrote “the standard is obsolete when it comes to modern smartphones”…
The 3.5 mm jack is going to disappear from the smartphone world completely. Will it still be useful in some other cases? Sure, I don’t see a viable replacement in some parts of the audio world. But in the smartphone world, where every single mm has an impact, it is, in my opinion, simply obsolete, especially when you already have other interfaces built in that essentially can do the same thing already… It’s just additional space being used that is not needed…
Yes, with time more and more people will buy USB-C headphones, it will become a standard
It already is a standard and it has been a standard for almost 10 years by now…
phones makers, following Apples stupid idea, started doing it first.
Of course they did, nobody wanted to be first to challenge a standard that was always the norm with portable devices, but no smartphone manufacturer wants a plug in their device that is unnecessary or redundant, which is why most followed once the first major player made the move.
Why start removing jack where they are used the most?
Because at the end of the day, it’s useless space… And I get it, switching a standard, especially a standard that is so widely used, is always annoying for some time-period. But the switch started 7 years ago…
People complain because with phones they are losing function
No, people complain because it’s a change and change is annoying… There is no actual loss of function, the audio jack doesn’t have any function that USB doesn’t have.
Well, I think you’re simply wrong. I remember when PC makers stopped including floppy disk readers in the computers. Everyone just shrugged because no one was using them any more. Same happened when laptops and cars stopped including CD players. Same with many different ports and connectors. This is how it should be done: you introduce new, better standards, people switch and when it’s actually obsolete (no one is using it any more) you remove it. People were (and are) still using mini jacks and companies simply decided to force the new standard on people. That’s why people complain.
This is how it should be done: you introduce new, better standards, people switch and when it’s actually obsolete (no one is using it any more) you remove it.
I think there is a fair argument to be made that back when apple pushed away from it, it was forced. I personally didn’t care, but I understand why some people did.
But that’s not what we are talking about, we are talking about today… What’s done is done…
People were (and are) still using mini jacks
Most people weren’t and certainly aren’t… The people who still cling to the jack never seem to understand this, but most smartphone users simply don’t care about audio quality on their phone… Most people don’t even listen to music on their phone… And among those who do, most don’t care or even notice the loss of quality with wireless… And for the few who care, there are alternatives, such as adapters…
And just as a reminder, we are talking about the upcoming fairphone 5, a device that has the goal of lasting 10 years… There is no reasonable justification for putting a port on it that has by now virtually disappeared from the smartphone market and that most people would never use…
Most people don’t even listen to music on their phone
Wow, that’s a bold statement. After a quick ddg:
There are some useful stats on ‘device share’ of music listening time in the IFPI’s report. Radios are still the most popular device, accounting for 29% of the time respondents spend listening to music. However, smartphones are just behind, with a 27% share of listening time – unchanged from the IFPI’s 2018 study.
Of course, smartphones are bigger for younger listeners: they account for 44% off the time 16-24 year-olds spend listening to music, according to the study.
So yeah, ‘most people don’t listen to music on their phones’ is only true in the sense that most people in the world don’t own a phone. Lots and lots of people actually do it. I think you’re looking at yourself and thinking that everyone is using a phone the same way you do. In reality people were used to just plugging their headphones into heir phone and now they can’t. New standard was pushed on them and the only reason was to make some extra money on AirPods. Are the phones without mini jack cheaper? No. Are the USB headphones better? No. So yeah, people will move on in the end but they are right to complain. If we don’t companies will just do it again.
I have a few better (in my opinion) motives to why I am not getting any fair phone:
• There’s not such a thing like ethical consume under capitalism.
• It isn’t environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.
• The new costs above $600 and the old ones costs around $400. This is a bunch of money and here in my country is almost 2 monthly minimum wages, without taxes, of course.
So I am sticking with my old Samsung, thank you.
It isn’t environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.
They keep saying that themselves, no one actually tries to sell you one if you have a phone already.
The most sustainable phone is the one you already have
Aham, all the people that are talking about buying one Fair phone these days doesn’t already have cellphones. That’s veeery credible…
Hopefully by the time my s10e is ready for landfill companies will be making reasonably sized phones again. If I wanted a tablet I’d buy a fucking tablet.
The S23 is the same size.
There’s not such a thing like ethical consume under capitalism.
What’s the conclusion of this claim? That we shouldn’t consume anything at all? That it doesn’t matter what we consume as it all is equally unethical?
Even if you believe that all consumption is unethical, there are still differences in impact and effect depending on what we consume and how much we consume.
It isn’t environmental good to change from a working phone to anything.
Of course not, but who is urging people to replace their new/working smartphone with a fairphone?
The new costs above $600 and the old ones costs around $400. This is a bunch of money
From a price/quality perspective, the fairphone has always been “bad”… You pay the price of a upper mid smartphone and get older mid tech. That’s because the fairphone’s main appeal is it’s modularity and their focus on “sustainable” production, which of course has it’s price.
If your main focus is price and affordability, the fairphone is a bad choice.
What is the conclusion of this statement?
First: nothing you buy will ever be free from exploitation under this system.
Second: buying one product over another will make no difference in society and the world.
Actually, this second conclusion is also a derivation of another statement: individuals do not change a society, collectives do. Boycotts, which are another attempt at conscious consumption, sometimes manage to shut down companies, but they never manage to end the harmful production pattern that these companies were applying in the first place.
And that doesn’t mean we should stop consuming everything, because it’s impossible to live without consuming.
In the end, conscious consumption only serves to feel good (falsely) about yourself. What is an honest reason to do something.
First: nothing you buy will ever be free from exploitation under this system.
Ok but again, even if you think so, there are still different degrees of exploitation. Saying “nothing I buy will ever be free from exploitation” can also be used as an argument not to care about exploitation at all…
buying one product over another will make no difference in society and the world.
Of course it will… You can argue that the difference it makes is so small that it is essentially 0, but it still makes a difference…
but they never manage to end the harmful production pattern that these companies were applying in the first place.
Just because you buying a more sustainably produced smartphone doesn’t solve all the problems in the world doesn’t mean that it has 0 impact…
In the end, conscious consumption only serves to feel good (falsely) about yourself.
No, it also demonstrates a way to improve something, even if that improvement is minuscule… It also shows the potential issues and problems that come with it… I would never claim that somebody buying a fairphone is changing the world, of course that would be ridiculous. Individual consumer choices indeed don’t have a big impact on systemic issues.
Their software support is also yet to be proven. That’s something they’d have to stick to for a long time before a general trust around their longevity is established.
You don’t really need to make a post about not buying a produck ya know?
Edit: forgot ewaste link, added dates
Always great to be cautious of corporations and what PR they say until proven otherwise.
At the end of the day profit is the goal of corporations to a certain point.
We decide what we want to support, if they don’t have what you want then you do not buy it.
Louis Rossmann videos on subject:
Fairphone thoughts & commentary with Louis Rossmann [Oct 11, 2021]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhLtyrRwGcg
The fairphone reduces ewaste - by removing the headphone jack… [Sep 15, 2022]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRdL0StldJM
Why I was wrong about fairphone [Jan 3, 2023]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAogtqyN22M
edit: words and sentence
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=fhLtyrRwGcg
https://piped.video/watch?v=EAogtqyN22M
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
It’s even wilder that they didn’t learn the lesson after fp4. Did people really just complain and then buy it anyway? How many phones can they sell that they can afford to piss off their customers like this? I just don’t understand how is the smartphone market so borked.
You overestimate the population needing a jack.
I don’t think FairPhone customers are exactly regular consumer population, and there was a strong backlash against removing the jack in fp4 (and introducing ewaste wireless buds). So either the people we buying the phones anyway, or the company has so many customers they don’t give a shit.
Sure enough Fairphone users are not the same consumers as Iphones or Samsung phones, surely a bit more “tech-conservative” in this regard. I was a bit annoyed at the removal of jack in newer phone models but since I switched to Bluetooth headphones I don’t think I’ll use wired anymore. Still a nice to have for many people, indeed.
the headphone jack community is like the vegans of smartphones
In the sense that vegans want vegan food available in vegan stores? Cause that’s the equivalent of wanting a headphone jack in a phone from a company that sells their products on all these promises.
I’ll admit, it came off a bit whiny and Bluetooth hardware is admittedly very accessible these days, but Bluetooth does definitely add additional unnecessary hardware and for a no compromise company like fairphone, it does seem strange they decided to leave out the headphone jack
vegetarian and headphone jack enthisiast here. can confirm.
It’s a “nice to have”, but I’d never rule out buying a phone for it.
Not like people really can these days. Options get even narrower if people start putting in settings they need like good software support and unlockable bootloader. Despite the many options there isn’t really a phone that doesn’t have some sort of concession to it despite the increasing price points.
My headphones (wired) cost more than a smartphone and I expect my handheld device to be compatible with them. I’ll rule out buying models based on this feature.
That’s strange, my headphones cost about 300€ and there is no way a smartphone headphone jack can even drive them at a sufficient volume due to their higher impedance.
I would imagine that gets worse on more expensive ones?
It very much depends on the pair of headphones and on the hardware of the phone.
My LG phone is a beast. Sure, it’s not quite the same audio power as a headphone amp would give, but the audio quality and convenience is fantastic.
Meze planars cost a couple grand and IIRC they can run without an amp.
I used to be omniaural too, so I get where you’re coming from, but have you seen the whistleblower videos from the airpod factory? Sick.
The only thing they have in common with vegans is that they are a vocal minority with a strong opinion, and those can of course be annyoing if you aren’t part of the group.
They are closer to reactionaries and conservatives who want hang on to an ancient standard/tradition mostly just because they are used to it and because it is tradition…
You can get wired USB earplugs, you can get cheap adapters for your old earplugs, so it’s not as if people are forced to use wireless.
This is just an ancient technology being replaced with a new technology, and instead of embracing the new tech and demanding improvements or solutions to problems with the new tech, some people just instinctly demand a return to the past without compromise.
I wish lemmy had awards for this comment
because they sell their own earbuds. its sad to see though. Asus and cheaper xiaomi phones have headphone jacks and unlockable bootloaders.
This was a reason to not buy a phone 4 years ago. It’s a bit late to complain now.
No, the need is still present. Headphone jacks are pretty essential still, wireless tech is not a replacement.
I’m not doubting you, just curious on the main use case
- Money - The cheapest actually usable wireless earbuds are like 50 bucks and they sound just like €5 wired Panasonic earbuds.
- Compatibility
- Nothing extra to recharge, no extra batteries to dispose of. Wireless earbuds are a lot more wasteful at the end of their life.
- Most likely higher audio quality than wireless if using SBC (depends on phone’s sound card)
- Latency - Sure, modern wireless earphones/headphones may have tiny latency, but it can get noticeable when gaming
- FM Radio - no antenna, no radio
- Less RFI
- Power efficiency
- Microphone input - It’s also an input. Wired input. Although it’s only mono. I used that to digitize a ZX Spectrum tape I found, tape with unidentified music and recording from SW radio. No need to bring out my laptop for that. You just need a combo jack splitter.
- No audio cuts - Most earbuds just cut off audio when there’s silence to save power, but that may also affect quiet audio. It also affects audio with cuts of silence in between. Each time they kick back, it’s ever so slightly late, losing a bit of audio.
- Safety when watching that stuff - you connected wired earphones, the audio goes just into them. You may take your wireless earphones, you see the Bluetooth icon showing it’s connected. Good. You play the stuff, you don’t hear anything. You increase the audio level, the living room speaker is moaning. Shit.
- SSTV - this could be useful for hams. There’s Robot36 and SSTV Encoder apps (F-Droid links). Using a phone with the radio may be pretty convenient, again utilizing the combo jack splitter.
Wired headphones? What else?
I haven’t seen many people use wired headphones in a very long time, which was the impetus for my question
Because it’s so rarely an option.
Really? They’re much better audio quality than bluetooth.
I guess I worded it wrong. The time to protest was ages ago and it’s too late now to convince any of the tech corps to change so good luck finding a phone in 2023 with a headphone jack. We lost.
Essential for what? Bluetooth used to be shit, but I’ve had very few issues with recent devices.
Bluetooth means a wireless bud/headphone, which means batteries and extra hardware to support Bluetooth and DAC, and an extra cable and charging adapter, and maybe an extra case. When it could all be driven by a simple headphone jack instead.
Bluetooth still lags. To this day. Don’t ask me why or how, given it’s the year of our lord 2023, but I can tell there is lag in most bluetooth headsets even in video content, let alone games.
So yeah, I have a Sony Xperia 1 IV, which not only has the headphone jack but forward facing stereo speakers and no notch or camera punch-hole. To my knowledge it’s the very last flagship phone with that specific feature set.
I may be wrong but if I remember correctly the reason it lags is that until the recent forced earbuds explosion the bluetooth protocol was focused on low energy efficient transmission for personal smart devices, and audio transmission was just an “extra” feature
Yeah, but “recent” here is a bit of a stretch. Apple removed the headphone jack from their phones seven years ago. Lagless bluetooth audio is only just now tehcnically possible and still widely unsupported. it’s absurd, and I honestly think it justifies not just seeking a phone with an audio jack but also moving on from the bluetooth standard altogether.
It still degrades audio quality and that’s an area I refuse to compromise on.
The smartphone is not the expensive part of my mobile audio playback setup, I expect it to be compatible with the standard playback interface of wires.
No, they are not essential… And this isn’t a discussion about wireless vs wired earbuds… USB headphones/earphones are a thing, the fact that you don’t like wireless is not an excuse to demand that an ancient and obsolete standard should be reinstated when you have plenty of options to use wired devices without a 3.5 mm headphone jack…
They’re actually fairly rare and not particularly compatible. My 3.5mm earbuds plug in natively to my Switch, my phone, my PS5 controller, my laptop and my desktop PC.
I recentlly upgraded my PC headset and moved the old one to use in my bedroom only to discover that because it’s USB I can only use it with my laptop.
So yeah, no, not obsolete and not the same.
My only pair of earbuds have a wire. The connector is usb-c and my phone has a jack. So I don’t even use the jack now
3.5 headphones that have volume controls and a pause/hang up button can’t seem to last a year. I tried 2 and they both lasted 3 months
Headphone jacks are not little. They take up a huge amount of board space on a device that people want to be small and light. They’re also fragile and they open up a big hole for crud to get in.
Every one of your points have been a solved problem for a while. We had small, light, durable, and even waterproof connectors before Apple called removing them “courage” (it was to sell more wireless headphones), and people with monetary incentives started to remove them, too.
Never had those problems of the phones with headphone jacks I’ve used. Feels like an exaggeration of problems being made like an infomercial.
Cut to black & white footage of a blonde suburban mom with her hand stuck inside a headphone jack. “Does THIS ever happen to you?”
I’ve never had a headphone jack break and I’ve used the jacks on some of my devices almost daily for 10+ years.
I have had to replace several USB jacks in that time span though.I think the biggest argument against headphone jack taking up space is the existence of the Samsung Ultra with the Spen. Samsung has an excuse for the Ultra not having a headphone jack with the space dedicated to the Spen. But, most phones don’t have a built in stylus, so what’s the excuse for them. Not like phones have gotten tinier. How is the spen a technological possibility, but headphone is being made to be some technological difficultly that is more difficult to overcome?
Because they can remove a small 10 cent component and sell you disposable 200€ headphones wich will be e-waste in 2 years, just look at how many more features the note 9 and 8 have compared to the s23 ultra, while the latter costs double
You drank too much Apple koolaid
My phone is completely sealed. No speakers, charging port or jack! The crud is staying out
Classic Reddit behavior. Downvoting people for being correct.
