Ragebait headline - what he actually said was “A cavity is not a classic vagina” which is a completely different sentence, and correct.
Specifically designed to make you angry
He also said this
no skills to treat men, even if they have shaved their beards and come to tell my secretary that they have become women
And
I only treat real women
Let’s not pretend that the doctor wasn’t acting transphobic.
The only reason a trans woman would go to a gynecologist is to raise a stink. No other reason, no “healthcare” reason. I hate people who go out of their way be to a “victim”.
“There is no recommendation for a trans woman to have regular gynaecological check-ups, unless she has a surgical problem related to the operation, because she doesn’t have a uterus or a cervix,” she added.
Fucking drama queen.
Seriously, what’s a gyno supposed to do? The parts they specialize in aren’t there. I can’t imagine being so pathetic that I go out of my way to cause problems for some random doctor.
Seriously, what’s a gyno supposed to do?
He could not say transphobic shit and call her a man.
Sure he was rude, but from the standpoint of his trade, she is a man. She has no female parts and that’s the whole point of his job.
It’s like handing an electrician a pipe wrench and saying “the wires are leaking, go tighten them up”
Sure he was rude
You’re really just glossing over this.
He called her a man in several different ways. That’s transphobic, and has nothing to do with his trade.
As has been pointed out several times now in this thread, that’s not correct
It has been pointed out exclusively by you, and you have been incorrect on each occasion.
Fuckin’ looooool
Conveniently left out the response huh
GOALPOST FOUL! Also: Suckit.
A “neo vagina” and a “neo cervix” are not vaginas and cervixes. They don’t need a gynaecology
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Post op trans women need gynecological services. If, however, you’re a trans woman who has had bottom surgery to create a vagina (vaginoplasty) and possibly a cervix, there’s a very small risk that you can develop cancer in the tissues of your neo-vagina or neo-cervix. The risk depends on the type of surgery you had, the type of tissue used to create your vagina and cervix and your personal health history. Talk to your healthcare provider to figure out your specific cancer-screening needs as part of your overall pelvic health following surgery. So neither shit stirring nor seeking unnecessary healthcare are necessarily at play here.
For cancer screeings you want to see an Oncologists.
For cancer treatment you see an oncologist, or if there are existing signs and you need to nail down whether you have it or not, or the specifics of your case. For screenings you don’t go to an onco.
Alright, so you go to your GP or, since the cancer risk in this case comes from basically a skin graft, maybe a dermatologist. But you sure as hell don’t need a gynocologist. There is also no mention of gynecology in the article you linked.
You also don’t go to a gynaecologist if you’re a male.
It’s possible that she had “a surgical problem related to the operation.” So maybe she was in the right place? We don’t know if this medical complaint was ever brought up during her visit.
I think the medical profession needs to be explicitly clear on what kind of care and where transwomen (and transmen) should seek care for what kind of issue. And in considerate, non transphobic language. That way everyone is on the same page.
She’s not in the right place because she is biologically male. Gynaecologists don’t treat males.
I was quoting Pernille Ravn, a member of the European Society of Gynaecology and a gynaecologist at Odense University Hospital in Denmark, from the article. My understanding of what Ravn said is that that might be a reason to see a gynecologist. I’m just going by what this doctor said. I’m not a gynecologist in France. Regardless, it would be helpful if their medical expert explicitly stated who transwomen patients should see related to what issues.
“I told her that I’m not competent, but I can guide you. I can refer you to services that can take better care of you. But after I said that, things went south,” gynaecologist Victor Acharian told Euronews.
Talk about the article just wanting to stir shit with the headlines. And so many of you are falling for it.
The comments about only treating “real women” and not men who “shave their beards” and “tell my secretary that they are a woman” are problematic
The patient needs to be educated about their body and the medical community needs to evolve to better serve trans people as well
Nothing they said is problematic or wrong. They care about sex, not gender. They’re medical professionals that deal with specific parts of the female reproductive system.
Disagree, they were pointlessly rude to a confused patient. The patient may have been in the wrong place, and they started strong with trying to guide them, but the later comments were just lashing out and trying to hurt.
Stating falsehoods is not a requirement for being “problematic”. Indeed, it’s ridiculously easy to reach any offensive ideology you want without having to stray from factual statements.
That’s not to say it’s all his fault, it sounds like a messy case where everyone involved screwed up.
I don’t understand why someone without a vagina would go to a gynecologist.
I’m very trans friendly, and I agree. A gynecologist is there to help you with things related to your vulva, vagina, uterus, ovaries, fallopian tubes… If you don’t have any of those things, there is nothing a gynecologist can do for you.
gynaecology: the area of medicine concerned with disorders and functions of women’s reproductive organs
This is just rage bait. The title is intentionally misleading.
Was she going there just for the experience or something? What was the end goal she was looking for here…
There is actually a chance to develop cancer in that region as a trans person. Also to check up hormon levels etc., there are a lot of valid reasons
The doctor replied with a message addressed to a “gentleman”, claiming that he treated “real women”.
He justified himself by saying that he had “no skills to treat men, even if they have shaved their beards and come to tell my secretary that they have become women”.
what the fuck
Dr Acharian admits he lashed out with the online comments, but says his reasoning for not seeing the patient is still justified, and highlights an underlying problem for medical professionals.
“I reacted spontaneously, out of anger, and I felt I’d been unfairly attacked. I reacted with very clumsy words that may have offended. I’m well aware of that, I’ve expressed my regrets on several occasions,” said Acharian.
good ol’ trans panic defense 🙄
I don’t know enough to say if it’s valid for a gynecologist to not treat a trans person, but it’s definitely not valid to be an absolute cunt about it. If you have a rational reason not to help them, cool, but you can explain that calmly and try to refer them to a place that can.
He did refer them.
He offered to, but the person ran off and raised a stink online instead of following the rational recommendation. Ahhhh, the 2020s. Good ol’ keyboard warriors and their cancel culture.
The person ran off and raised a stink online because the doctor was a being a fucking dick. If he just politely refused and referred them to another doctor, there would be no story.
If he just politely refused and referred them to another doctor, there would be no story.
But that’s literally what happened. Her response to that was calling the doctor a transphobe and insulting his staff. She was being a dick first.
Did you even bother to read the article?
I did read the article. Calling her a man is being a dick. Asking for services while being trans is not being a dick.
There is no indication in the article that he called her a man before she flew of the handle.
There is never an excuse to be transphobic. The story doesn’t get better for him if she was belligerent first. Let’s keep in mind how upsetting this situation is for her, and then instead of de-escalating he makes it worse.
I disagree. That’s a much better story for him. Not even sure if he’s transphobic or just not trained in PC language. If he meant “I only treat biological women”, he’d be correct.
She was upset and kind of having a bad fucking day, and then instead of de-escalating he makes it worse.
And maybe he was also having a bad day, probably because of her. Why is this on him in the first place?
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He worked on so many that he eventually became one. That sounds like a One Punch Man villan origin.
You don’t know enough to say if it’s valid for a doctor that specialises in female reproductive systems to treat a male who doesn’t have a female reproductive system? Really?
This is like going to an optometrist about your sore foot.
I have to ask: considering the profound surgical intervention required to aid a person transition, are there any life lasting specialized care needs to assure health? Or after normal surgery recovery that’s it?
from what I know of a friend: There’s some stretching required of the new vaginal entrance (medically prescribed dildos back in fashion!) and yes, trans women can potentially develop cancer much like their cis counterparts. Generally advised to get it checked every so often to make sure it’s all up to snuff.
can potentially develop cancer much like their cis counterparts
No. Very much unlike their cis counterparts, a female transperson has no uterus, no fallopian tubes, or any other part commonly found in a vagina. They can develop topical cancers such as skin cancers or subdermal cancers as in literally any tissue anywhere in their bodies, but those are not cancers generally found during a pap-smear (which is the primary domain of a gyno). Any sufficiently skilled GP or dermatologist would be equally or better suited.
You try and get a dermatologist or gp to inspect vaginal tissue, they’re gonna refer you to a gyno
And is that care provided by general practice gynecologists or specialized ones?
She had a standard gyno
That is actually very good and interesting to know.
Not at all true. You can’t get cervical cancer without a cervix. No uterus. No fallopian tubes. None of the same bits.
Trans women are lifelong medical patients. Those that get “bottom surgery” almost all seem to need follow up surgeries to fix issues because it’s literally a gaping wound that needs to be regularly “dilated” to keep from closing up which would cause even bigger medical issues.
This comment section is a warzone
This is certainly the most transphobic bigots I’ve seen in a thread on the Fediverse.
Lemmy.zip seems pretty g*mer centric
It’s like everyone from aussie.zone is a capital G too.
I don’t think all the aussies can be grandfathers.
im locking this as there are multiple reports of transphobia and bigotry. It appears the comments are devolving into personal attacks.
I see there’s a lot of ignorant bigots in this comment section making claims without any actual knowledge on the topic.
From the Canadian Cancer Society: “If, however, you’re a trans woman who has had bottom surgery to create a vagina (vaginoplasty) and possibly a cervix, there’s a very small risk that you can develop cancer in the tissues of your neo-vagina or neo-cervix.”
there’s a lot of angry little terfs in here. And a disturbing number of people who seem to think the only thing a gyno does is peer up a clacker with a torch.
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So this doctor is a complete douchbag and should not be practicing medicine. But he’s also not entirely wrong. Medically speaking what your gender is is irrelevant most of the time. Of course it applies to any procedures you may be undergoing or medications you may be taking to alter your body to match your gender but that’s about it. Any competent doctor will of course respect your gender identity because understanding and having a good relationship with the patient is important. But medically speaking they care more about whether you are at risk for prostate cancer or uterine cysts and your biological sex (alongside your medical history) is a much better indicator of that (outside of relatively rare exceptions). If you are a trans woman who has had bottom surgery then not every gyno is going to have the skillset to help you because that just isn’t what many of them are trained for. I’ve definitely had my doctor tell me I need to see someone else for certain issues because they just didn’t have the skillset to help. Of course there are far better ways to say that than how this “doctor” chose to do so, but him not providing care that he wasn’t trained to provide isn’t the issue here. His douchbag attitude and him not providing a referal to a doctor who could help is the issue.
Agreed with everything you said except that, according to the article, he initially did offer a referral to another doctor. It was only after she got angry that the discourse escalated and he said offensive things in response.
Ah. I must have missed that. In that case it’s a little more understandable. He just got pissed off and snapped. Even so you need to be a little more thick skinned than that if you want to be a doctor. I don’t know all of the details of course but he still shouldn’t have sunk to insults.
[…] you need to be a little more thick skinned than that if you want to be a doctor.
Why?
I understand doctors are humans too, and presume that is your reason for questioning “Why?”.
But in defense of doctors being more “thick skinned”, I think patients are generally the more vulnerable side as they are usually the ones with issues. If every doctor they come to snaps at them, they start to lose trust in healthcare providers.
It’s not wrong what you are saying, but it’s unrealistic. Being “thick skinned” is almost always useful and almost never required. There’s not enough doctors already, and only so many “thick skinned” people. Becoming a medical doctor already requires a set of skills, that only a subset of humans have; adding being “thick skinned” as a requirement is simply naive.
I think they’re simply both assholes here.
The trans person who flipped out and verbally abused the doctor/receptionist for referring them elsewhere when the doctor is specifically a women’s reproductive health doctor and the trans woman has no female reproductive system is an asshole.
The doctor who responded to this by going online and calling her a “man who shaved his beard” is also an asshole.
They can both be true.
nah, that’s a bullshit excuse. I’ve been furious enough to wreak physical violence, and even in that state I haven’t gone to a bigoted well.
Yank the bastards license. He’s clearly ignorant of medical facts and violating his oath
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The way you put it lays out the problem very well. Gender identity should be concerned with being women or men or the myriad of blends in between. Healthcare is concerned with male or female, and that doesn’t change even if surgery may make the situation complicated and need a specialist.
The doctor was clearly a bit of a cunt about it, but having him treat something that he’s not trained to do should not be an expectation. I imagine I would be a bit ticked off too if a male expected me to inspect their lady bits. It would be unethical for me to pretend to, to humor them, and it would put me in a very awkward situation to try dance around not hurting feelings or coming off as narrowminded. Gender identity should be left to social dynamics an specialists and left at the door of a doctor’s office.
Having said that a better approach from the gynaecologist would have been to tell them he has no training, but offer to look anyway and help them find a doctor in the area that could be more qualified.
A trans woman who’s had reconstructive genital surgery will still need gynecological care for her shiny new lady bits. The vulva and vagina will still require attendance.
Then she should look for someone that specialises in post plastic surgery care.
Not from a gynaecologist they don’t lol. So you even know what a gynaecology is?
Yes. You do know what they do, right?
They don’t look inside an open wound that used to be a penis, that’s for sure.
Ignorant of medical facts? Which ones exactly? Does a trans woman have a female reproductive system?
