There are a lot of reasons not to give them your money. They’re assholes to the maker community and they openly talk shit on a lot of their customer base. That’s beside the point, though, really.
It’s just not a spectacular option for hosting. In order to get a Rpi competitive with even the shittiest laptop from 7 years ago, you’re going to end up spending more than you would spend on a decent laptop from 7 years ago.
If it is a computer that turns on, it will likely function orders of magnitude better than an Rpi and won’t bind you to ARM architecture. My entire hosting setup was pulled out of a recycling pile for free. Install ubuntu/ubuntu server and enjoy yourself.
If you intend on spending any amount of money on this hobby, I cannot express enough how much I recommend against any of that money going toward a Raspberry Pi.
EDIT: A lot of you seem to be reading this as “Raspberry Pis are all nonfunctional” and getting mad about it. Don’t do that.
The moderator team will take this as a learning opportunity. We don’t have any rules for this community specific to rudeness or insults. This post was fine as an opinion piece until Edit 2. For this reason, I’m locking the post. Additionally, we’ll be updated the community rules on the Sidebar shortly.
I love to hate claims like this. it’s like a fart, but ends up being a shart. No truth in the source and unjustified noise and grumbles that leaves a mess and confuses people for no reason.
Do yourself a favor, either cite links that legitimize your claims or just sign off, you’re hangry.
I’m just here to say that I’ve never heard any of the negative claims that OP makes from anyone else before.
What I have seen and heard is that the RPi foundation doing a lot of good by providing low cost computers for educational use and anyone else who wants a good, small, and cheap computer.
Yes and, classically, if you specifically haven’t heard or looked into something, it’s not true so my bad
It really doesn’t matter to me that much if you live the rest of your life being wrong. Google is free.
You seem to have conveniently left out power consumption.
I agree they are very pricey these days. Are there any competitiors that offer cheap low-power consumption computers?
It will not be that great like on Raspberry Pi, but Mini PC are also very low on energy. For example,. Wyse 5070 with J5005 idles around 3-5 W, which is really great. i had HP 800 Mini G3 that idled ~7-8W. Mini PCs are more powerful, expandable and can use normal SSD Drive. For selfhosting they are better, but in some places Raspberry Pi (or alternative like Orange Pi) will be better, especially when you need something small and really low power
I never heard of the orange pi!
Some of the models are very cheap. Have you tried them? If they are as reliable, I might get myself one for a couple of projects.
Yes. I have Orange Pi Zero 2 with 1 GB of RAM running Ubuntu. This is actually very powerful machine, more powerful than my Raspberry Pi 3B+. i bought it for about 180 polish zloty (around 40 euros). I use it for printing server with Ghostscript printer app installed via Snap. I also tried Wireguard and MongoDB - everything works fine. it works really well, but it sits around 50 C on CPU, so it can get hot.
Yeah, power consumption is never talked about enough when talking about that type of hardware. I do have an old PC I could use as a server, but I don’t need more heating at home. Mini-PCs are cool, but how cool are they?
But anyway, I haven’t been able to buy a RPi at decent price in years, so 🤷🏻♂️
I had some good experience with the pine64 boards!
Oh never looked into those, thanks!
I wanted to get something to use as a NAS server and/or a pi-hole.
Sure, yw :) There are also NAS cases for some of the SBCs, but I guess you can also go cheaper without a dedicated case and go with some icybox which allows you to connect some disks (jbod or RAID) via USB 3. So many possibilities!
I’ve been happy with the libre computer LePotato. It’s similar to a pi board.
I thought you were joking, it’s actually the real name. xD
You’d probably be shocked at how close a 65w supply charging a laptop battery at trickle voltages and a 2A 5v power supply maxed out 24/7 can come to each other
Do you have some source for that?
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An RPi doesn’t max out a 2A 5V power supply unless its under heavy load. Idle is closer to half an amp.
If you’re hosting a server, you’re not going to get much idle time.
Heavily depends on the server, a game server sure, for almost anything else you’re probably doing it wrong.
Ok
What about a web server or a file server? Both are very much on-demand, so they’re chock full of idle time. Even NextCloud has a ton of idle time.
Edit: As an aside, I love your profile pic, it’s a cool wizard :)
Euuhh what? I used to use an old pc but found out I could save about NZ$100 per year on power by switching to an RPi4. It hosts about 15 things, like sonarr, radarr, home assistant, pi hole, nzbget, photoview, Frigate, and backups, without any issues. Yes it’s not super power full but it’s perfect for me.
What OS are you using with your RP4to host all that?
You cant beat rpi with power usage, but PC can draw <10W on idle. Well my server is more like 20-25W, but thats 25ish € a year here. Rpi would be 5-10 € a year. I pay around 0.12 €/kwh in Croatia
I didn’t say that raspberry pis are nonfunctional.
Can you expand on some of this?
I haven’t really heard much regarding them being bad to their community/customer base, though I haven’t bought in a few years.
In regards to cost/performance, what are you meaning you’d need to spend extra on to match that of an old laptop or recycled machine?
Not OP, but my Lenovo tiny computer on ebay is about $60 and will run circles around a raspberry pi
Power usage isn’t too much higher, it’s upgradeable, and it’s x86-64 architecture so more things are supported.
My tiny has an i7 and was a bit more expensive, but it’s a powerful little guy. I added more ram for a total of 32, and it does better than my “old” server (technically from same era).
Can’t speak for the other stuff.
Do you run Windows on yours, or have you installed a different OS to run things?
Not op but I have 3 tiny PCs and I run Linux on them. But then I don’t run windows at all because it honestly sucks.
I run proxmox on bare metal. I have a couple VMs for docker, and video game servers.
facts, at this point you are paying for size, gpio and the fact that its a form factor with industrial grade options easily available. not really as useful for a hobbyist at the price though.
For projects I prefer an ESP32 unless it needs a fancy GUI.
Any ESP32 you would recommend with easy wired networking (like DHCP client), easy language (python, node, c#. Tbh these are just the ones I know), easy IDE, and a bunch of libraries (like OSC, WebSockets, mqtt, rabbitmq, as well as stuff for various GPIO stuff)?
I’ve gone down a street of node-red on a raspberry pi, and I find it really easy to make complex things.
But 90% of my stuff is node->JS function->node. And I feel like I could do better!I haven’t found one with wired (haven’t looked through either), mine are all wireless. I played with visual studio code as a IDE, and it worked pretty well. You can also use the Arduino IDE, but it’s been forever since I’ve used that. I’m about to dip my toes into ESPHome and combine with my home assistant.
Same with the HP elite desks, and don’t forget you can get off lease Chromebooks with much better specs than pi for ~$60 as well
if you don’t want to be replacing sd cards
The truth hurts, but this is the truth. Clawing at those little shits is the most annoying thing ever.
aa
I’ve heard log2ram can make the SD cards last much longer, I usually just make it read only though.
If you don’t want to be replacing sdcards every two weeks, you’ll need to add a hard drive with an enclosure which will also need power. You’ll also need an upgraded power supply for the pi. To deal with any sort of scale, you’ll need more than one in a swarm. If you don’t want them just out in the open air, you’ll either need to coat them or put them in cases. It just all adds up to way more than a $5 ebay laptop with a broken screen that has 20x the performance.
I have an SSD connected to mine which doesn’t need external power and runs fine off the “official” power adapter. The case I have isn’t the greatest (two pieces of acrylic and some stand-offs lol), but it costed 50p and gets the job done.
As for scale, you’re beyond a Pi at that point.
Don’t buy garage SD cards. I have cards that have been in use for years.
Dang I gotta stop getting my cards from garages?
I use mine for my pihole and have been pretty happy. $40 bucks, tiny footprint and power consumption. I have a 3 from 2018. I get where your coming from but gonna need some sauce for your claims.
Yes, agreed…running pi-hole on a RP3b and it works great! Have been running it 24/with Raspbian and the same SD card for over 5 years.
Yes, running pi-hole on a RP3b and it works great! Have been running it 24/7 with Raspbian and the same SD card for over 5 years.
Yes, agreed…running pi-hole on a RP3b and it works great! Have been running it 24/with Raspbian and the same SD card for over 5 years.
The source is the blowup that happened on mastodon when they hired an ex-cop who did illegal shit with raspberry pis
Source though?
I am not OP but since they didn’t provide any I went and found some
#1 https://www.makeuseof.com/raspberry-pi-hires-former-police-officer-for-surveillance-tech/?newsletter_popup=1 #2 https://raspberrypi.social/@Raspberry_Pi/109476972427437410 #3 https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/meet-raspberry-pis-maker-in-residence-toby-roberts/
Personally, I think this is a case of people trying to make the policing issue in the USA a global one. While I acknowledge that many countries, including mine, have problems with policing, I don’t believe it is highly controversial to consider hiring someone with a background in law enforcement.
I mean, maybe it’s because I’m not overly paranoid or live in the US, but this doesn’t seem like a big deal at all.
As for the “drama” of them telling someone they can unfollow, it’s true. It’s again, not a big deal.
This screams people trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.
It seems a bit like:
“You hired a cop!”
“Ok, So?”
“Fire them!”
“No…?”
“FASCISTS!”
I’m not a fan of cops either but this just seems really silly.
I’ll need to get some links on any of this. But I generally use VM’s or VPS my self.
Links? OP is sharing their experience and expressing an opinion. What do you want links for?
It is not an opinion that they shit talk customers and hurt the maker space. That is either true or not. Fact or fiction
They’re assholes to the maker community and they openly talk shit on a lot of their customer base.
You got receipts for such a strong claim?
Yes
- refuses to elaborate
- leaves
Sounds about right
So you admit talking out of your ass?
Absolutely not
Would you like to provide those receipts?
If anyone is looking for ARM SBC alternatives since Raspberry Pis are so expensive:
- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078RT6H8X/
- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074P6BNGZ/
- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BFVFF3FV/
Do note that if you are doing any IOT/anything with the pin inputs/outputs of an SBC, you’re going to have to match the pins/change some config in your code to make it work with these boards. It shouldn’t be too hard, it’s an SBC after all, but compatibility issues arise all the same.
Cheers
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Raspberry PIs got me into Linux, python, networking and a whole bunch more.
Now, that’s my job.PIs are great for tinkering or quick jobs, specifically if you need GPIO or GPIO related peripherals and networking/monitor.
For anything that needs a computer with an ethernet port (web serving, pihole, docker, whatever) then buy some cheap knock-off or refurbished low power device.
For anything that only needs the GPIO then get some MSP32.I’ve used PIs for doing crazy adapters between hardware and network. And they are awesome for that.
I’ve built a few projects that have also had a GUI. Also awesome for that.
But low powered PCs don’t have the native GPIO support at the same cost.
And a lot of the knock-offs don’t have the same library support. And certainly don’t have the Linux support.However, I made this decision a few years ago.
So, it’s possible that my opinion is now out dated, and competitors have really picked up.
It’s also easier for me to spend $100 knowing a pi will do it, as opposed to gambling (or spending more time/support time) on a more reasonably priced SBC.I’d still consider them an overall force of good
Maybe rpi, but broadcom absolutely isn’t. They are one of the worst companies to work with in embedded.
Old thin clients are worth looking at as rpi replacements. I have one as a (2D) print sever, for a printer that only has windows drivers.
The only real advantage rpi has these days is the amount of stuff that’s prepacked as OS images for them. Technically speaking other SBC usually have a better price/performance ratio.
There are a lot of reasons not to give them your money. They’re assholes to the maker community and they openly talk shit on a lot of their customer base.
Citation needed, Pi’s are just a single member of the broader SBC market. They are great for a lot of projects, especially for beginners who are their primary market, or those unfamiliar with Linux systems.
It’s just not a spectacular option for hosting. In order to get a Rpi competitive with even the shittiest laptop from 7 years ago, you’re going to end up spending more than you would spend on a decent laptop from 7 years ago.
Citation needed, currently for what I use my Pi’s for, they are massive overkill. A laptop has WAY more breakable, and less repairable parts. A pi is a SBC, nothing I don’t need. I don’t want a screen, I don’t want a keyboard, I don’t want an ancient battery that is probably bloated from being plugged in all the time, and I absolutely do not want a fan. Honestly the Pi zero is overkill for most of my stuff, I just do actually want a wired network port. Your measure of “competitive” is extremely flawed, because you assume the only thing a Pi is useful for is it’s raw number crunching power when that’s not at all what they are marketed towards. In all honesty, I’d love to see a laptop that was even 50% as good a a Pi, but for that weight and size you’re looking almost entirely at used phones, whose OS is significantly more locked down. Can’t exactly run Docker on Android, let alone dealing with running servers over wifi.
If it is a computer that turns on, it will likely function orders of magnitude better than an Rpi and won’t bind you to ARM architecture. My entire hosting setup was pulled out of a recycling pile for free. Install ubuntu/ubuntu server and enjoy yourself.
How could I mount a laptop to my garage door for presence detection of which car is coming and going? Would be kind of an eyesore wouldn’t you think, without even mentioning the weight problems. Laptops are massive compared to a Pi. For your point on ARM specifically, that’s a feature my friend. Alternative cpu architectures are pretty interesting, and I personally have been an avid RISC-V follower for years now, and am absolutely thrilled to bits waiting for a standardized RV solution like the Pi. How lucky of you to just be given everything for free, thanks for taking e-waste out of the landfills for a little while I guess. Most of us have to buy the products we use, maybe getting something from a friend once in a while.
If you intend on spending any amount of money on this hobby, I cannot express enough how much I recommend against any of that money going toward a Raspberry Pi.
What do you recommend instead?
Sounds like arduinos and a laptop is what you want
edit: sorry in advance for how unenthusiastic this response is. I’m real fucking tired of talking about this to a crowd of people who have already decided I could never be correct
Arduinos can’t really handle video encoding and presence detection on board. A laptop is extreme overkill, as I said in my post. Don’t want a battery, screen, keyboard, hinges, and fans are a deal breaker. Old laptops are bulky, heavy, have proprietary power bricks that are never cross compatible with each other. A laptop and a SBC are just totally different markets, and are used for totally different things.
ok
I do agree that stuff like the RPi 4 is in a weird spot where it’s too weak for a lot of things but also too expensive for the light stuff. The biggest gripes I have are the SD cards which makes data intensive tasks impossible/expensive and overall makes it so you need to think about not causing to much writing. That and how hard they are to place. Large enough to be ugly and in the way but small so they’re awkward to find a good spot for.
However I think the RPi zeroes are amazing for building small but intelligent sensors like picking up when a specific bluetooth device enters a room or a small microphone to create a relay point for a voice assistant. They’re super easy to program since they still run basic Linux compared to other alternatives that are more efficient sure and some even cheaper but require you to access them via COM or learn much more machine close coding. Which puts up a massive hurdle for prototyping and playing around with the possibilities.
As for using old laptops that a big ehhh for me. Find yourself a used NUC instead. Much better form factor and the same power or even better. Though if they dont need to be visible then I really do prefer a small desktop, then it can have decent fans and hold hard drives. Everybody needs a NAS right? And building one yourself is easy and they make for excellent home servers too.
As for using old laptops that a big ehhh for me. Find yourself a used NUC instead.
Yes, but that costs money and I already have the laptop in my possession. Which is the majority reason why old laptops are used for this kind of thing.
Sure but that is a different premise than the post isn’t it? They explicitly talk about buying an old laptop.
Unless you already have it, to be honest
I love little ARM SBCs but my self-hosting journey accelerated drastically when I gave in and started using 8yo x86 hardware instead.
A couple rounds of upgrades later and I can also see how much more compute/$ one gets out of x86 as well. Even relatively recent PC hadware is absolutely dirt cheap used.
I have an Optiplex 7050 SFF that I dumped a few hundred dollars worth of upgrades into for shits and giggles when I ran it as my daily driver; then I built a beastly Ryzen system to daily and shunted the Optiplex over to server duties, replacing the previous server (14 year-old HP Elitedesk 8100 SFF).
The Optiplex runs everything I can throw at it with ease, far better than the HP could have ever hoped to do.
haha, all 3 x86 servers I started with are OptiPlex SFF. Commodity business PCs for the win.
I’ve since upgraded two of them to even smaller 1L USFF PCs (one Dell one HP) and the beastliest OptiPlex SFF (i7-4770) is now my database server and NAS box. All of them run Proxmox.
