Almost 90 bombs were dropped in one region in just 24 hours.

Russia unleashed an unprecedented bombardment in southern Ukraine overnight in what local officials described as a “massive attack” in the conflict which has continued to rage even as the international community’s attention has moved to the war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.

The Ukrainian Internal Affairs Ministry on Monday morning said Russia dropped at least “87 aerial bombs on populated areas of the Kherson region - the largest number for all time.” At least eight people were also injured in other Russian strikes carried out in the Odessa region further to the west on Sunday night.

  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    If we’d shift funds from Israel (who are committing genocide) to Ukraine (who are defending themselves) it helps Palestine and hurts Russia too.

    Is a win/win.

    Imagine if Ukraine had the iron dome America bought Israel.

    • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
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      1 year ago

      Imagine if Ukraine had the iron dome America bought Israel.

      I know your heart is in the right place but ID barely covers a city and operating costs are extremely high. Right now the missiles that the ID system uses cost something around $1,000,000 each so defending just this latest bombing run would have been $90,000,000 USD.

      No one could afford to operate the system even if it could be built.

      • LaLiLuLuCo
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        ID interceptor missiles are more like $50k-150k a piece, but multiple are fired during each interception to increase chances of a successful hit. The amount fired already since the 7th is still probably in the $1-2 billion range if you estimate conservatively.

        Iron Knife and Iron Beam are much cheaper per shot (~$4 and $2500 respectively) but are developed by Israel itself in collaboration with US military industrial contractors. The Gaza war is a giant live fire test for them and countries including the US and India are lining up to buy them.

        Iron Dome as a whole thing array also includes David’s Sling and the Arrows which cover different type of attacks. I. E. Cruise and ballistic missiles amongst other things.

        • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
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          1 year ago

          You are correct I just didn’t want to get into the details of how the system works. I think my main points still stand; the technical challenges of expanding a system like that to cover a a whole country would be massive and actually running it would be far too expensive.

          • LaLiLuLuCo
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            1 year ago

            Oh yea for sure it’s not feasible for anyone except maybe the US and in specific areas and along dangerous borders.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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      1 year ago

      Israel doesn’t actually need American money, unfortunately. Sure, it helps them, but they can continue this campaign for a long time without a dollar from the U.S. Ukraine, on the other hand, is a much more desperate situation. I’m not saying that means we shouldn’t shift funds from Israel to Ukraine, because I agree we should do that, but it will likely not help Palestinians much.

    • Gorilladrums
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      1 year ago

      Fuck that, America should support both Ukraine and Israel at the same time. They’re both allies

    • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      So you want Israel to be bombed even more and everyone there killed? Because that’s the plan of Palestine and Lebanon (which is genocide btw). And would happen if they didn’t have the iron dome.

      • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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        1 year ago

        Those bombings only happen because of retaliation to turning their country into a concentration camp.

        Terrorism can not be justified, but I doubt many (including you) would act differently if you were in the situation Palestine is in.

        • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          Palestine did plenty much on their own to turn Gaza and West Bank into places not good to live in. Decisions I would definitely not share since I am not an Islamic non-democratic women-and-LGBTQ-hating anti-Semite.

          They are not concentration camps. Perhaps you should look at how concentration camps worked if you try to compare the two.

      • Aux@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Israel, just like Russia, can simply stop occupying territories which don’t belong to them and stop a genocide. And no one will be killed. Stop apologizing the genocide, ok?

        • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          Hamas attacked an area that did not belong to Palestine. And the areas they are constantly shooting rockets at are also not the areas that Israel took unrightfully. The idea that Palestine is only defending and not attacking doesn’t fit their agenda or their behaviour in the past and now.

        • Gorilladrums
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          1 year ago

          Israel doesn’t occupy Gaza. They unilaterally gave up their settlements in Gaza up back in 2005 and haven’t gone back since

    • Bezerker03@lemmy.bezzie.world
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      1 year ago

      Israel is defending itself as well. They just have a better counter attack success rate. Or did we forget that Ukraine also wants to bomb Moscow etc. (and has launched drones etc).

      The key difference is one is a gov one is a terror org who represents their gov.

      • TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id
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        1 year ago

        No expert seriously believes that Ukraine has the ability to bomb Moscow. The few small-scale drone attacks attributed to it --Ukraine officially denied responsibility-- are thought to have been meant as psy ops, kind of a wake up call to Moscow, a city that Putin has gone out of his way to insulate from the war --none of his conscripts come from Moscow, for example.

    • BB69@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Imagine all the dead Jews that would cause too.

      Palestine isn’t a nation of saints.

      • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Israel assassinates journalists and sells weapons grade hacking technology to oppressive regimes.

        Also, until Israel started their ground assault Jews hadn’t really been dying since 7 October. Almost all deaths since then have been Palestinian.

    • YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      There is a lot of misinformation in your comment.

      The United States didn’t fund Israel’s iron dome system.

      There isn’t a genocide (race / tribe killing) in Gaza. That’s a population transfer or eviction of lands.

      Ukraine and the United States are working together to implement a air defense system. A likely defense treaty and a 100 year lease on military bases in exchange for infrastructure rebuilding is on the table.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        There isn’t a genocide (race / tribe killing) in Gaza

        Genocide isn’t just killing…

        In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

        Killing members of the group;

        Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

        Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

        Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

        Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

        https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

        And even if that was just indiscriminate killing based on race/ethnicity, the UN is already saying what Israel is doing amounts to that

        https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-running-out-time-un-experts-warn-demanding-ceasefire-prevent-genocide

        Your opinion is your opinion.

        But what is/isn’t a genocide is clearly defined in the Geneva convention. And even if you’re definition was correct, the UN disagrees with you about Israel meeting that definition.

        • ParsnipWitch@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          The UN’s humans rights body is heavily biased against Israel. And in general not a neutral party as you seem to think.

          Of the 193 countries which make up the UN, the majority (133) are non-democratic states. 48 are countries belonging to the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Cooperation).

          Of the 280 human rights condemnations the UN has found world wide between 2006 and 2023, 103 where in Israel. They found none in, for example, China, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. They also didn’t cry genocide during the genocide in Rwanda.

          I 100 % believe Israel commits war crimes against Palestine. But I do not believe that Israel alone is responsible for almost 40 % of all human rights violations world wide since 2006.

          • jarfil@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Some wars are about who gets control over some resources, or who will be collecting the taxes, without trying to wipe out the other side.

              • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                If that was true, then I’m sure there’s lots of statements from human rights organizations world wide clarifying how it’s wrong.

                Do you mind linking one?

                Quick edit:

                Also, that doesn’t mean Israel isn’t breaking the Geneva Convention…

                In fact, it seems to be admission that they are…

                • YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world
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                  It will take a bit to pull it from the 1948 archive but Raphael Lemkin used it because it was a loaded word to mean killing millions of people.

                  The actual UN definition added any transfer of children from one ethnic group to another in the last week of negotiations in 1948. Even by that definition it doesn’t meet the UN term with what is happening in Gaza.

                  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    So to clarify, you agree that Israel is violating the Geneva Convention?

                    Your issue is just that the Genocide section is called that?

                    If all this is really that pedantic and you understand that human rights abuses are bad, and Israel is committing human rights abuses, I guess I’ll take what I can get.

                    But it seems like you’re defending the acts Israel are committing on the basis that the section of the genocide section of the Geneva Convention is more in depth than just saying “don’t exterminate every single person in a group”.

                    Because by that logic, there wasn’t a genocide in North America for over a century against the indigenous people…

                    Even by that definition it doesn’t meet the UN term with what is happening in Gaza.

                    Your still ignoring the majority of what the Geneva Convention says…

                    I’ve linked it multiple times, and even quoted it once so you don’t have to click the link…

                    https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

                    Specifically

                    Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

                    And

                    Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

                    But the link really goes into specifics that you should know, just read the link.

          • PupBiru@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            and literally literally means literally but now we use it to mean figuratively

            turns out language is about use, not origin

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making a region ethnically homogeneous. Along with direct removal, extermination, deportation or population transfer, it also includes indirect methods aimed at forced migration by coercing the victim group to flee and preventing its return, such as murder, rape, and property destruction.[3][4][5] It constitutes a crime against humanity and may also fall under the Genocide Convention, even though ethnic cleansing has no legal definition under international criminal law.[3][6][7]

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

            • YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world
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              Yes, stupid people (United Nations for example) use the wrong word, all the time, especially when it’s translated from another language. Genocide is the wrong word to use. Israel is not wiping out nor trying to wipe out the Palestinians.

              • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Since you’re the top mod, can I just remind you that you broke rule 5?

                Or do I need to report your comment?

                You’re still not understanding though, and it’s very important as a mod you understand this issue. Otherwise I’d have stopped replying already.

                  • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    Yes, stupid people use the wrong word, all the time

                    I assumed that was an insult directed at me.

                    Were you calling the UN and everyone that signed the Geneva Convention stupid instead?

                    Even the “misinformation” claim, clearly the UN and Geneva Convention have a definition that’s different than yours, are you saying the Geneva Convention is misinformation?

                    You’re free to disagree as a personal opinion, but that’s like me insisting an apple is a yellow fruit from South America that you need to peel before eating…

                    It doesn’t change the definition everyone has agreed on.

              • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.ca
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                This ain’t an etymology thing. Definitions are clarified for legal purposes. I think you have to ask yourself why you’re trying to dig your heels in against a literal definition. They didn’t define it wrong, it’s literally defined in excruciating and exacting detail for legal purposes.

                • YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world
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                  Where are the examples of Israel taking Palestinian child to convert them to Judaism? That is the line you’re trying to imply. Forced relocation is not genocide. It’s a population transfer.

            • YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Incorrect word.

              The use of a loaded latin word like genocide is used to invoke mass killing and wiping out a population completely. If you see it used you know the source is extremely biased and should not be taken as fact.

              Use the correct language so you don’t look like a fool.

              • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world
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                You keep repeating this like you believe it. Find an English dictionary you’ll realise it’s an English word and it has a precise meaning that is not what you think it is. The fact you don’t agree with that meaning is your problem only, you don’t get to decide

              • ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world
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                Genocide is an English word with English definitions.

                You can argue about its roots and such, but that’s a different discussion.

                It’s like “decimate”. Decimate is an English word with a different definition to the Latin word its based on. It used to mean “kill one in every ten”, now it means “to kill/destroy almost, but not completely”. (Almost the opposite meaning)