After an underwhelming few years, Arsenal took a big step in the right direction in the 2022/23 season. Although their silverware drought continued, they jumped up to second in the league and gave Manchester City a real run for their money, quite clearly looking like the second-best side in the country behind the treble-winners. The
You can’t have one player taking over the defensive responsibility of the entire midfield.
The system was balanced last year with a midfield 3 of Odegaard, Xhaka and Partey. Partey played very defensively, Xhaka played like a box-to-box player doing some attacking and some defending. Odegaard played as an attacker who also harried and pressed in transition phases.
Even if Rice is better defensively than Partey (and I don’t think that’s necessarily true), it’s a lot of burden to place on any one player.
For this year I think Rice replaces Xhaka and we use either Partey or Jorginho in the DM role, while Kai spends most of his time playing along the front 3 until he is fully integrated into the role of Xhaka.
In two/three years I can see Rice moving into that DM role if neither Partey or Jorginho are up to par.
And just a side note. Wasn’t Cazorla an AM who transitioned into the CM role rather well?
I don’t think you pay that much for a 24 year old and don’t immediately have them in the starting line-up.
Cazorla was a winger who became a CAM when he lost a bit of his pace. Eventually he transitioned to a CM role in his late 20s (maybe even early 30s, I can’t remember). Late 20s is when you can expect attackers to sometimes be able to adapt to a defensive role. Wingers switch to fullbacks, CAMs become CMs, etc. By that time they have enough experience to read the defensive side of the game well, and know their positioning.
But, even with Cazorla, he was at his best when he was paired with a very defensive player. His best year he was next to Coquelin who was basically nothing but a midfield destroyer.
Rodri mostly plays in a midfield with Gundogan and De Bruyne.
Gundogan makes almost as many interceptions as Rodri: 0.9/90 for Rodri, 0.8/90 for Gundogan. It makes sense because at Dortmund under Klopp Gundogan was a defensive midfielder.
While De Bruyne isn’t as much of a CM as the other two, he’s an experienced, 32 year old player who has played in central midfield for a long time, so he knows his position and what’s expected of him.
I think a Havertz, Rice, Odegaard midfield would be dangerously weak defensively. Odegaard is learning to be a better defender, but he’s still better as someone who presses and harries, rather than someone who sits and cuts off passing lanes. Havertz played a little bit as a CM for Leverkusen before he was 20, but for most of his career he’s been a second striker or a striker.
Besides, at Man City, the midfield doesn’t spend much time defending. They’re probably the best team on the planet right now, and most of their opponents will sit back and only rarely attack. Arsenal is a good team and will force most teams to defend, but not to the same extent. Because of that, Arsenal can’t get away with a midfield that is so attacking.
@merc
And before Gundogan it was David Silva. The players and details change but ultimately Rodri managed it like Fernandinho and Casemiro and others. It’s risky but it’s a system that can work well and should, given the level of spending.
I think if we can keep Holding and Tierney out of the side, we can get away with it and dominate most of the league and CL group.
@merc
The problem with this system is that Arteta rarely tweaks things and tries to mitigate risk against specific opposition. Similar to Wenger - more ideological that pragmatic.
We should trial this system against obviously weaker opposition.
Will be interesting to see how dependent Arteta was on Xhaka - treated him like a comfort blanket since he arrived.
@merc @ThePowerOfGeek
Isn’t the idea that Rice picks up the defensive slack instead of KH reinventing himself?
You can’t have one player taking over the defensive responsibility of the entire midfield.
The system was balanced last year with a midfield 3 of Odegaard, Xhaka and Partey. Partey played very defensively, Xhaka played like a box-to-box player doing some attacking and some defending. Odegaard played as an attacker who also harried and pressed in transition phases.
Even if Rice is better defensively than Partey (and I don’t think that’s necessarily true), it’s a lot of burden to place on any one player.
For this year I think Rice replaces Xhaka and we use either Partey or Jorginho in the DM role, while Kai spends most of his time playing along the front 3 until he is fully integrated into the role of Xhaka.
In two/three years I can see Rice moving into that DM role if neither Partey or Jorginho are up to par.
And just a side note. Wasn’t Cazorla an AM who transitioned into the CM role rather well?
I don’t think you pay that much for a 24 year old and don’t immediately have them in the starting line-up.
Cazorla was a winger who became a CAM when he lost a bit of his pace. Eventually he transitioned to a CM role in his late 20s (maybe even early 30s, I can’t remember). Late 20s is when you can expect attackers to sometimes be able to adapt to a defensive role. Wingers switch to fullbacks, CAMs become CMs, etc. By that time they have enough experience to read the defensive side of the game well, and know their positioning.
But, even with Cazorla, he was at his best when he was paired with a very defensive player. His best year he was next to Coquelin who was basically nothing but a midfield destroyer.
@merc
Rodri does this job ok enough although I agree it’s a big burden.
Rodri mostly plays in a midfield with Gundogan and De Bruyne.
Gundogan makes almost as many interceptions as Rodri: 0.9/90 for Rodri, 0.8/90 for Gundogan. It makes sense because at Dortmund under Klopp Gundogan was a defensive midfielder.
While De Bruyne isn’t as much of a CM as the other two, he’s an experienced, 32 year old player who has played in central midfield for a long time, so he knows his position and what’s expected of him.
I think a Havertz, Rice, Odegaard midfield would be dangerously weak defensively. Odegaard is learning to be a better defender, but he’s still better as someone who presses and harries, rather than someone who sits and cuts off passing lanes. Havertz played a little bit as a CM for Leverkusen before he was 20, but for most of his career he’s been a second striker or a striker.
Besides, at Man City, the midfield doesn’t spend much time defending. They’re probably the best team on the planet right now, and most of their opponents will sit back and only rarely attack. Arsenal is a good team and will force most teams to defend, but not to the same extent. Because of that, Arsenal can’t get away with a midfield that is so attacking.
@merc
And before Gundogan it was David Silva. The players and details change but ultimately Rodri managed it like Fernandinho and Casemiro and others. It’s risky but it’s a system that can work well and should, given the level of spending.
I think if we can keep Holding and Tierney out of the side, we can get away with it and dominate most of the league and CL group.
@merc
The problem with this system is that Arteta rarely tweaks things and tries to mitigate risk against specific opposition. Similar to Wenger - more ideological that pragmatic.
We should trial this system against obviously weaker opposition.
Will be interesting to see how dependent Arteta was on Xhaka - treated him like a comfort blanket since he arrived.