Yeah, not keeping my breath. Israel doesnt like to provide evidence and when it does are often disproven short after.
Clowns.
Quick, show a picture of an elevator shaft
but what if it’s a HAMAS elevator shaft? Checkmate.
It’s insane that bombing hospitals is not condemned immediately as a war crime as it is in Ukraine. Its painfully obvious that a different set of rules applies to Israel
Provided that hospital is used to store ammunition or as an escape route for terrorists - no. It’s not insane that it’s not condemned. Ukraine doesn’t risk their citizens’ lives by grossly breaking the geneva convention.
The rules are different because the game is different. Ukraine is not Hamas.
None of that has been verified. Israelis have been consistently caught lying about human shields. Bombing refugee camps and failing to distinguish between civilians and combatants.
You can choose not to believe it. But when there’s footage of actual captured terrorists saying explicitly everything that they’re being excused of, and when even the son of Hamas’ leader is saying those same things aswell, then I just find it hard to ignore all that evidence. Hamas are publicly evil, advocating to death to all Israelis civilians (shooting rockets/terror attacks indiscriminately), and doing everything they can to prevent the existence of the more peaceful PLO in Gaza (via armed means, see their coup as an example…). So it’s really not that hard to believe (given the evidence) that they’re also evil towards their own population, and hide under civilian infrastructure, again, after so many testimonies and intelligence reports.
And say what you want about the IDF, but multiple professional army personnel have advocated for how they’re the most humane army in the world, doing the most out of any army in the world to make sure they don’t target civilians. Do civilians still die? Yes. Is it unavoidable as an act of war? Yes. Are the IDF the best at mitigating those civilian deaths in the world? Yes.
You mean the Green Prince? That guy is a douchebag who will say anything for attention.
The most humane army in the world has killed more children in 4 weeks than have died in war zones since 2020. The most humane army drops bombs in refugee camps killing hundreds of innocents to eliminate one combatant. It uses explosive weapons against hospitals and suffocates premature babies by denying supplies in violation of the Geneva convention.
“This guy with an absolutely more valid point of view doesn’t agree with me so he’s a douchebag” Sure. Ok. Whatever.
And comparing this Gaza war with the rest of the world’s conflicts is just absurd. No war in recent times has been with so many civilians around legitimate military targets, and that makes this war impossible to win without casualties. Not to mention almost half of Gaza are children, so that data is also heavily skewed.
That same “refugee camp” was heavily populated by Hamas terrorists, which were located there for decades, in concrete buildings. Calling it an innocent refugee camp for the poor and helpless is a loooong stretch after what’s been done in 7/10.
Premature babies are evacuated by the IDF when they arrive at the hospital.
And the geneva convention clearly states that deliberately fighting from civilian infrastructure is a violation of the geneva convention, and that once such a case has been made, that same infrastructure is a valid military target. No one cares when Hamas grossly and admittedly break the geneva convention because they’re the poor side.
“Impossible to win”
Yep that’s sums it up. There’s no military solution to what Israel is doing unless it involves ethnic cleansing and genocide, which based on the dehumanizing statements of Israel’s politicians, officers and religious extremists in addition to the war crimes it’s carrying out in Gaza by bombing hospitals, schools and refugee camps, is quite likely. There are millions of Palestinians without rights or self determination. Israel wants to keep them in ghettos forever.
This deliberate destruction of urban areas by the Israeli army is policy as you probably already know.
The military solution is to cleanse Hamas from power.
Destroy all their terror resources, guns, rockets, tunnels. Then put someone else in power who doesn’t advocate for and actively and successfully pursues the murder of all Israelis.
And again, the bombings of civilian infrastructure would’ve been considered as war crimes if Hamas wasn’t using them as bases of operations to carry out actual legitimate horrifying genocide against Israelis.
Yes, Israel wants Gazans to stay poor. Coz when they’re poor they can’t do This
I legit want to know what any of you have done if you were born Israelis. They act in the most humane way possible by anyone in the world, given their circumstances. The fact that their government isn’t even more right wing, and isn’t advocating the total destruction of Gaza is a shock to me. Their enemies are actively and successfully pursuing them in wars until all Israelis would die. Just imagine if someone like putin was in charge of Israel… Or Khamenei… 2 million would be either in Egypt, or in graves.
Ah yes, the reason people are protesting is because of the hospital raid, not the wanton slaughter of civilians.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
It is now days since Israeli forces entered Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, and what appears to be happening on Friday is that they are continuing their search for evidence of this being a key Hamas command centre.
We have to remember that there is no independent scrutiny inside the hospital; journalists cannot move freely into Gaza, and any who are reporting from the site are working under the aegis of the Israeli military.
The evidence Israel has produced, so far, I do not believe to be convincing in terms of the kind of rhetoric Israelis were using about the set-up at the hospital, which suggested this was a nerve centre for the Hamas operation.
From the beginning of this war on 7 October, when a surprise attack launched by Hamas killed around 1,200 people, mostly Israeli civilians, it has said reaching the hospital is one of its main targets.
Israel’s major justification for killing so many people in Gaza - more than 11,500 in more than a month, according to the latest figure from the territory’s Hamas-run health ministry - is that Hamas was using them as human shields.
He is also pointing to what he called “strong indications” that hostages had been held there too, after the Israel Defense Forces said the body of 65-year-old Yehudit Weiss, who had been kidnapped from her home in Be’eri near the Gaza boundary, was discovered in a house near Al-Shifa.
The original article contains 874 words, the summary contains 239 words. Saved 73%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
… I’m just curious. How many people here think that there are no tunnels or military resources under the hospital, and Israel is making it all up? If you think that’s probably the case, upvote this comment.
edit: Feel free to downvote if you think it’s probably not the case. I don’t care about the karma, I’m just curious about the poll results.
This poll is not going to be accurate because you have worded it so. Everyone knows there are tunnels there because Israel dug them in particular there before leaving occupation in 2006. The real questions should be if they are connected, serving as a logistics hub, or used for storage of weapons. Even then, that’s a completely different question on if it was justified to take the hospital in the way they did as opposed to just bombing it and of the certainty of the intelligence played into the decision making there.
Bro what? Israel digging tunnels in Gaza?
And I don’t understand, you’re saying it’s better to bomb the hospital given it’s acting as a military hub? That it’s better to bomb it rather than taking it over?
I’m so confused by your comment.
Israel occupied the Gaza strip until 2005. There is certain infrastructure that they built and tunnels under that hospital was one of them. It was not for military purposes but they know it is there. It’s important to understand the context behind the news as well as the events themselves.
Um… Sources? First time I hear of them digging tunnels.
But even if they did dig tunnels for non-military purposes in the 2000s, they have good intelligence of it being used as a military storehouse (even if you don’t believe their intelligence, which is regarded as one of the best in the world by several nations worldwide, you can hear the same from 7/10 terrorists’ testimonies in captivity). And it’s proven that Hamas’ strategy is digging tunnels for themselves, as in 2014 they used those tunnels in fighting the IDF and for invading bordering villages.
The IDF is the source. That doesn’t mean that the rest of the intelligence is not true, tunnels haven’t expanded, and that they are not using them for military purposes. It is simply focused on that hospital in particular.
I agree, the poll is basically guaranteed to be at least somewhat inaccurate, for quite a few different reasons. I’m not looking for concrete answers though, just general vibes is fine.
edit: As huge a proponent of the scientific method as I am, it is by design a very slow, thorough and methodical process, that tries to hone in on very accurate answers.
Geopolitics in the modern world is extraordinarily fast. Everything can change in a single day, and never-before-seen things are always right around the corner now. For this reason, the scientific method, while very useful for understanding current geopolitics at some future date, will never be able to actually participate in it in real time, at any kind of major scale. Nor should it, as speeding it up to do so would add inaccuracy.
History involves science. Geopolitics is an art, and will be until scientific research can be done in minutes and hours instead of days, weeks and months. It’s a technical hurdle.
Deception is at the core of all warfare. Politics is inseparable. Any tool to increase data will be gamed for political ends.
Warfare is politics by other means. Politics is not warfare by other means.
The BBC has already confirmed that the IDF is planting guns in al-Shifa: https://twitter.com/_RichardHall/status/1725498963174752490?t=eRT8uuGerft1G0Hs9mbnjg&s=19
That is not confirmed, it’s currently in the “seems” category, which just isn’t good enough. Things are not always as they seem, judging books and covers, etc etc etc.
If actually confirmed, this would be devastating evidence, likely enough to change my mind, personally. Jumping straight to that conclusion is premature, though, we’ll see. Thanks for sharing it though. I wouldn’t put it past anyone, and it is definitely deeply concerning.
The CNN is picking it up too, it seems: CNN analysis: Video suggests IDF might have rearranged weaponry at Al-Shifa prior to news crew visits
Even playing Devil’s advocate, it shows a blatant disregard for provenance and calls into question any evidence the IDF provides to journalists.
I would say that any evidence provided by any participant in any war should always be examined with extreme rigor. No exceptions. Definitely wouldn’t just trust the IDF or anything. I do apply the same standard to their opposition, however.
The IDF has a pretty clear record of lying out of their teeth. Most recently, they released that video of a “nurse in al-Shifa” that later turned out to be an entirely faked video.
