It is the weak who are cruel, gentleness can be expected only from the strong. -Leo Rosen

Also “Hurt people hurt people.”

Note I am not in any way meaning to imply that one should accept or excuse cruel behavior.

But I do not want to respond to hateful people by being hateful myself. Responding from strength means taking action and responding clearly and forcefully. It is really hard to see fellow humans be so blind and so cruel and cause such unimaginable harm. Agree - they need to be stopped. I don’t know how to help this stop.

But they are still fellow humans - with their own stories and struggles. The response to someone dehumanizing others isn’t to dehumanize them back.

So the question is what actions can we take? I am not a target (born in the US, white) outside of my political beliefs - so how can I take a stand in a way that might help / have an effect?

I don’t know. I share your despair at seeing what is happening - and I encourage you to keep hold of your compassion and strength and act from there. Act boldly, forcefully, and with love.

So the right way to be a billionaire is to do exactly what Gates does - make a charitable foundation and use that to do your “common good” work.

You can have access to all and control of that money AND invest and spend it wisely AND not worry about taxes… just set up a charitable foundation that you control. Sure there are limits to how you spend it - but if your intention is to do stuff for the common good anyways = totally easy to do “help people” stuff with charitable foundation money.

Technically that money belongs to the foundation, not to Gates. When he dies the money stays with the foundation and continues to do good stuff.

I cannot think of any non selfish reason for one person to have that much money. If they want to do good with the money they will set up a charitable foundation because that is a much more effective way to accomplish good things with their funds.

If they keep the money as their own it is fair to assume they fall in the “billionaire bad” category, because if they were planning to use it for the common good they would put it in a foundation they control and spend it from there.

The Gates have way more money than they will ever need. So do a lot of people.

They spend their money helping people. Other billionaires do not.

So yeah, your option is just not very well informed.

For sure he is not perfect. For sure there are pros and cons to every choice. For sure there are areas I disagree with him.

But you are random opinion having internet person and the foundation is a 25 yr old foundation with 2,000+ extremely capable people who have so much more research based knowledge about how to be effective in that space than you and I ever could dream of having it’s laughable.

Right - the charitable company manages its money to try to continue doing charitable work. That is not Bill Gates money. That is charity money.

Ok, just making sure you didn’t think he was implanting microchips, lol.

I agree that his stance on intellectual property rights is not one that benefits the common good. But it’s a belief he has held consistently and wasn’t covid specific. I disagree with it, but it does not negate the gazillion things he has done that I do agree with.

And it’s hard for me to think it’s profit motivated because he consistently gives away more money than he makes. If his motive was to make more money he would not be doing almost all of the things he’s doing.

100% agree the IP stuff sucks and is bad for the world. Disagree that his stance on that negates everything else he’s done. Nobody is perfect and he has had a more positive effect on the world than almost anyone alive - certainly more than anyone in his income bracket. Could he be better? Yes. Does that make him bad? Nope.

Absolutely you can be rich and stay rich and and invest well AND do great charitable work, all very ethically.

That is not what we are talking about. Go watch some of those videos that try to explain “a billion”. It’s really hard to wrap your head around the difference- but it’s like cup of water, pool of water vs all the oceans on earth. There is a point beyond which it is unethical to keep all that money.

Finite resources. When millions of people suffer and die for lack of resources while one parson controls enough resources to support all of them = it’s just not fair. No one person is worth more than hundreds of thousands of people.

For someone lucky and successful and hardworking to be better off than others = totally cool. You can do that no problem with 100 mil.

But when you have 1000x1000 more than you will ever need and other people die for want? Not cool.

What is it you think they did?

Agree. Being a billionaire is inherently immoral.

However if all billionaires supported the politicians and policies that the Gates support we would not be in this situation. Like they actually do understand the value of a strong/healthy middle class.

Note that Bill Gates plans to give away more than 99% of his wealth. It’s hard to call him unethical for keeping his money with a straight face when he’s giving away 99% of it. And working hard to do that in ways that will matter to fellow humans who are truly suffering. Like he’s not building libraries to put his name on, he’s giving away vaccines and mosquito nets.

So I’m thinking he actually isn’t keeping his excessive wealth. Like he is actually giving it away - so yeah, I don’t lump him with the others at all.

Then you are not paying attention.

I’m not denying Bill was a merciless asshole as a business man to make his money, but he got married and had kids and learned compassion. Still not a perfect human, but he has given away over 100 billion dollars- with care and thought and in ways that literally save lives. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2p4p4l78zo

Google says his foundation has saved 122 million lives. SAVED LIVES. Not propped up his own interests or gotten accolades or done PR to impress ignorant people - but literally spent years of his own life working to SAVETHE LIVES of his fellow human beings.

They are not the same.

I did this more when I lived on the east coast and could hop on a bus - but it’s wicked expensive to fly and get a hotel. 😛 I have done it, and would be willing to again - I just can’t afford it regularly.

I went to the one in Portland. It was such good energy- it invigorates everyone present. It gives us energy to do other things as well.

The fact that Trump doesn’t care about Oregon doesn’t mean that “doing nothing” is a better option. Don’t discourage people from taking action. If we are gathering and talking to each other we’re more likely to find and join in other efforts.

Speaking of which - what is it that you would suggest the good people of Oregon be doing to make a difference?

Depends on the bus / area.

There is real time bus tracking now in most places so you can see when things will arrive = WAY better for dealing with traffic (note traffic is a thing for cars as well)

I’m in Portland OR and of course a bus going through a bad area is more likely to have people who are “not ok” (addicts) but the vast majority of our busses are clean and climate controlled and filled with perfectly lovely friendly people.

And risk assessment is based on what is likely. My aunt smoked her whole life and never got lung cancer so my “personal experience” is that smoking doesn’t cause cancer. You see what I’m saying?

Cars are more dangerous than busses. Period. You might not like them for any number of perfectly valid reasons, and a specific bus in a specific area might be more dangerous - but the point of the post is that personal preference and accurate risk assessment are not the same thing.

American, but here for the same reason.

Sure - but not at the 50501 events. Those are peaceful “big tent” events. Kids and elderly friendly.

Unless you want to ensure that most Americans won’t show up - which will not help us reach your goals - then please disrupt in any time/place/way EXCEPT for these planned “Big Tent” peaceful protests.

53 checking in 🙂

So it’s important that people who are elderly or have young children feel safe.

If you want to get in conflict with police please do that at a different event that is intended to be disruptive. Please let the peaceful protest be a place where everyone is welcomed and we can attract huge numbers of law abiding citizens.

100% civil disobedience will be needed. This is not the day for that. This is a “big tent” day. There will be plenty of opportunities to cause trouble- but if you cause trouble at this one - that I am attending with my 87 year old father - he will never come with me to another event.

So please don’t. Please disrupt a different event.

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If you get overwhelmed with stimulus in general headphones - maybe just in one ear - that don’t block outside noise but can play something familiar might help.

Just gives you something to focus on that IS comfortable when other aspects might not be. Music or meditation or podcast or whatever is familiar reassuring. Also battery backup.

I am interested in protest but not in violence so made a cloth sash that says “peaceful protest” on one side and “nonviolence” on the other. Just to help keep myself identifiable as someone who is not looking for a fight.