What I have learned:
- Russia has already won the Ukraine war
- Which NATO started
- A lot of people in the West think that Ukraine should surrender
- Also Ukraine was the world’s main provider of CSAM
- Also Ukraine is exploited by the West but if they can unite with Russia then their economy and everything else will finally be alright
It’s literally like a bizarro world and everyone is over there agreeing with it. I’m genuinely confused by, who even are these people (what is the mixture of Russian bots / Russian-aligned ordinary people / confused Westerners / some other explanation.)
This is such destructive rhetoric, everything you disagree with is Russian propaganda. Yes of course Russia is trying to influence western opinion with war propaganda, because that is what countries at war do. But the US has shown so clearly in the past that they can not be trusted to be the single source of truth, because spoiler alert: they are also a country (de facto) at war.
No, even remotely trying to provide justification for the Russian campaign of terror and atrocities against Ukraine is destructive rhetoric.
RUSSIA IS THE BAD GUY. No if’s and’s or but’s about it. There was no existential threat to Russia, there was/is no plan to invade Russia, there are no Nazis ruling Ukraine.
Every day we see in the newspapers new examples of the barbarism the Russians show towards their Ukranian neighbors. Russia steals children, actively targets civilians, civilian infrastructure and even first responders. It armed terrorists with an advanced Anti air system and shot down a passenger airliner… the list of bad guy things is endless.
And the whole “disagreeing with the narrative because there is more to it” is just propagating Russian talking points and helping them muddy the water. Russia joining NATO would have been the death of nato. And in turn the structure for keeping Russia in check would have been gone.
All former Soviet states lived under the brutality of Moscow and know first hand that they cannot be trusted. It is good they where believed.
The US has done everything you (correctly) accuse Russia of in Iraq, Vietnam, and South America (either directly or via proxies). What does that make the US?
Imperialist states do imperialist things, the least we can do (coming from a European perspective) is to try to maintain peace by a combination of international law and pragmatic ad hock peace deals where international law is unattainable.
Ad hoc peace deal with Russia where had, yet here we are.
And whataboutiam doesn’t help here. I’m not defending the US im arguing Ukraines right to sovereignty.
You are defending US foreign policy.
Again, the reason we are here is because of Russian foreign policy and Ukraine not bending the preverbial knee.
The fact that Ukraine did not want to bend the knee and felt strong enough to do so only due to support from the EU and the US says something about the weight of the Russian diplomatic gorilla.
War is just diplomacy by other means. And Russia cannot accept a free and prosperous neighbor that had enough natural resources to actually be a financial threat to Russia while having close enough ties in culture and language to show the average Russian that there is an alternative to Putin’s cleptocracy.
You are defending Russian and Chinese foreign policy.
So it’s equally as bad or it’s okay.
What point are you making with this whataboutism? Two things can be true at once ffs.
This is not a whataboutism, I’m saying two imperial states are destroying a country as part of their power politics, as a counter argument to Russia are the bad guys and the US can be trusted.
Ukraines interests are supported by the US and the EU and many other countries after their democratically elected government goes on a worldwide tour pleading for help against an invasion… totally the same thing.
If the police end up storming your house after a couple of armed criminals take over your house… their interest are also aligned with yours. Their motivation differs from yours though.