What I have learned:
- Russia has already won the Ukraine war
- Which NATO started
- A lot of people in the West think that Ukraine should surrender
- Also Ukraine was the world’s main provider of CSAM
- Also Ukraine is exploited by the West but if they can unite with Russia then their economy and everything else will finally be alright
It’s literally like a bizarro world and everyone is over there agreeing with it. I’m genuinely confused by, who even are these people (what is the mixture of Russian bots / Russian-aligned ordinary people / confused Westerners / some other explanation.)
For OP: This above is the Russian talking points light, presented as a reasonable timeline. It glances over so much important stuff.
Hexbear is a group of useful idiots steered by the Russian MOD. Anything that destabilized their adversaries is good. This als means feeding a wide array of victim blaming, feeding competing narratives and generally making people question if there actually is a truth.
Shut up about NATO expansion
The link you have provided with that title and thumbnail (written “Deal with it”) is no better than the Hexbear or Russian MOD propaganda you are belittling. Sounding cool or assertive while “shutting up” a (main) discussion point will only resonate with the same type of right-wing nationalist people in your own circle, while you are criticizing the same group albeit in another circle.
I wonder if you ever considered the same adjectives can be applied to you from others’ perspectives at a glance.
Note: Not implying any stance here on my part. Just pointing out what can be drowning the discussions while everyone points fingers at someone.
The title is antagonistic, the content is well reasoned though. I don’t have any control over the title.
This is such destructive rhetoric, everything you disagree with is Russian propaganda. Yes of course Russia is trying to influence western opinion with war propaganda, because that is what countries at war do. But the US has shown so clearly in the past that they can not be trusted to be the single source of truth, because spoiler alert: they are also a country (de facto) at war.
No, even remotely trying to provide justification for the Russian campaign of terror and atrocities against Ukraine is destructive rhetoric.
RUSSIA IS THE BAD GUY. No if’s and’s or but’s about it. There was no existential threat to Russia, there was/is no plan to invade Russia, there are no Nazis ruling Ukraine.
Every day we see in the newspapers new examples of the barbarism the Russians show towards their Ukranian neighbors. Russia steals children, actively targets civilians, civilian infrastructure and even first responders. It armed terrorists with an advanced Anti air system and shot down a passenger airliner… the list of bad guy things is endless.
And the whole “disagreeing with the narrative because there is more to it” is just propagating Russian talking points and helping them muddy the water. Russia joining NATO would have been the death of nato. And in turn the structure for keeping Russia in check would have been gone.
All former Soviet states lived under the brutality of Moscow and know first hand that they cannot be trusted. It is good they where believed.
The US has done everything you (correctly) accuse Russia of in Iraq, Vietnam, and South America (either directly or via proxies). What does that make the US?
Imperialist states do imperialist things, the least we can do (coming from a European perspective) is to try to maintain peace by a combination of international law and pragmatic ad hock peace deals where international law is unattainable.
Ad hoc peace deal with Russia where had, yet here we are.
And whataboutiam doesn’t help here. I’m not defending the US im arguing Ukraines right to sovereignty.
You are defending US foreign policy.
Again, the reason we are here is because of Russian foreign policy and Ukraine not bending the preverbial knee.
The fact that Ukraine did not want to bend the knee and felt strong enough to do so only due to support from the EU and the US says something about the weight of the Russian diplomatic gorilla.
War is just diplomacy by other means. And Russia cannot accept a free and prosperous neighbor that had enough natural resources to actually be a financial threat to Russia while having close enough ties in culture and language to show the average Russian that there is an alternative to Putin’s cleptocracy.
You are defending Russian and Chinese foreign policy.
So it’s equally as bad or it’s okay.
What point are you making with this whataboutism? Two things can be true at once ffs.
This is not a whataboutism, I’m saying two imperial states are destroying a country as part of their power politics, as a counter argument to Russia are the bad guys and the US can be trusted.
Ukraines interests are supported by the US and the EU and many other countries after their democratically elected government goes on a worldwide tour pleading for help against an invasion… totally the same thing.
If the police end up storming your house after a couple of armed criminals take over your house… their interest are also aligned with yours. Their motivation differs from yours though.
And about the NATO thing, what do you think would happen if Mexico and Canada tried to join a military alliance with China?
I’m not victim blaming, I’m blaming the US and Russia for playing cynical geopolitical games and destroying a country along the way.
If Canada or Mexico wanted to make ties with China that’s their perogative.
America doesn’t get to dictate the affairs of it’s neighbors.
I wouldn’t dedicate my free time to screeching ‘death to Canada’ and being a dipshit to everyone who doesn’t share a carbon copy of my faulty perspective.
I’m not asking what you want the US to do, I’m asking what do you think the US would do.
Let me check my crystal fucking ball.
Ffs you’re dense.
Just saw this thread, sorry for chiming in.
The US would do like Russia or China does, act as a reactionary. They’re all untrustworthy and aggressive.
It both makes sense that Russia is afraid of countries joining NATO and that he countries are joining because of Russia.
Ngl the US would react quite pissed just like it reacted during the Cuba crisis.
Placing nuclear warheads in range of enemy cities is OK, but when the enemy wants to place their nuclear warheads in range of my cities as a reaction it’s a cause for nuclear war.
And the US has overthrown quite a lot of governments for their own interests (starting with the banana wars and later extending to anti-communism and oil), so toppling the Mexican / Canadian government to get them back on track actually isn’t far fetched.
But I agree with your last point. Even tho I don’t like the US I’d never make opposing the US at all cost even if I have to side with literal fascists & mass murders my main purpose of life. Out of China, Russia, Iran and the US, the US is the lesser evil (at least for now… Idk what MAGA is up to)
I would think it would be like when Canada and Mexico did not break ties with Cuba after the Cuban revolution during the cold war. You know that time when the USSR and USA tensions where way higher then today? So political rumblings?
Sure does. Like the 8-year long shelling civilians campaign that Ukraine was undertaking on Donetsk and Luhansk, solely on the basis that it wanted to deny them a vote on their own autonomy.
They had a vote… in the 90s and wanted away from Russia. Afterwards Russian proxies in the Donbas started a war.
Two quick questions: How many combatants and how many non-combatant civilians were killed in this shelling campaign over the course of the whole 8 years?
And also, if Chechnya wanted to vote on their own autonomy from the Russian Federation, what do you think would be Russia’s reaction? Just purely as a hypothetical.
The bastard Admitted to being a Hexbear troll. Don’t waste your time.
I notice he’s not real eager to answer either question 🙂
You mean the civilians who shot down a civilian airplane?
Yeah civilians able to source a BUK air defence system from the Russian army through direct calls with Russian MOD personell.