When you compare Biden to Trump vs. the effects on the Palestinians, were Trump president again, he would not just help the Israelis exterminate the Palestinians, but encourage them to do so quickly- as he’s already told Bibi to “finish it”. So your dichotomy is more than a bit disingenuous .

  • Deceptichum
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    37
    arrow-down
    27
    ·
    edit-2
    5 months ago

    Voting the lesser evil still leads to evil in the long run.

    • agamemnonymous
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      30
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      5 months ago

      You got a practical alternative you’d like to share with the class?

      • AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        17
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        5 months ago

        Vote in your local elections, and support (or directly work to pass) election reform laws, particularly related to ditching the electoral college.

        Not necessarily saying it’s the alternative, but it’s a start and local elections have larger personal impact most of the time.

        • agamemnonymous
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          18
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          5 months ago

          I agree with all of this, but it’s not an alternative, it’s just an additional vector of action. My question is about alternatives to Biden for president in this election.

          • AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            Well, that’s up to the DNC. They could put almost any other prominent dem and they’d probably beat Trump. The DNC also has the ability to change the candidate after the election but before the electoral ballots are cast, at least as far as I understand their rules.

            Trust, I understand your point. The primaries are over, and that’s where the different candidate should have been chosen. But unfortunately, the whole not knowing any viable alternatives line of thinking is what got the DNC into this mess in the first place.

            • agamemnonymous
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              8
              arrow-down
              5
              ·
              5 months ago

              Yeah, I think any other Dem candidate is a gamble: you lose out on the significant incumbent boost, you only have 4 months to campaign if you start now, and you risk losing momentum on the moderate vote. This isn’t an election I want to gamble with, especially with the recent SCOTUS ruling. Everything said and done, I don’t think the benefits outweigh the risks.

              November 6th is when we should start pushing for significant changes. 11th hour fuckery isn’t going to help this cycle.

              • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                5 months ago

                Yeah, I think any other Dem candidate is a gamble: you lose out on the significant incumbent boost

                Except Biden has a 37% approval rating…

                That’s Jimmy Carter level…

                Do you know what happened with Jimmy Carter’s second term?

                An incumbency only translates to a boost, when being the incumbent is a positive thing.

                2/3s of voters don’t think Biden is a good president. 56% think he is a bad one.

                We can’t afford to hope enough people hold their nose for him.

                This is bigger than any one person, even Joe Biden

        • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          5 months ago

          But all the people whining about gEnOciDe jOe are only upset because its and election year. They disappear after November and don’t show up again until 4 years later.

          • Adub@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            5 months ago

            Trump used Palestinian as a slur & they are laughing with him. Not sure how serious anyone is supposed to take them.

            • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              5 months ago

              Well, they’re serious about urging people to not vote against MAGA, so…. There’s that.

        • agamemnonymous
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          5 months ago

          I’m all for socialism long term solution. I’m confused as to how that is an alternative to voting against the present greatest threat to socialism that can be voted against. What is the material implementation of “socialism” which provides a timely alternative to that action?

          • umbrella@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            5 months ago

            op commenter was talking about a long term solution.

            socialism begins with the organization of the working class. this organization can be used to press your boss and the government in an effective way in the short term.

            this ‘pressure’ can look like a strike, but its not limited to it.

            • agamemnonymous
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              5 months ago

              Again, actions I support. These actions, however, are not mutually exclusive to voting in elections for the lesser evil. In fact, these actions are more substantially suppressed under the greater evil. The rational action then is to use all avenues available to oneself, including but not limited to voting for whichever of the two dominant parties is less detrimental to action on other avenues.

              One of the two dominant parties is objectively worse for the organization of the working class. Vote for the less worse party, while you organize and pressure the powers that be.

              • umbrella@lemmy.ml
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                5 months ago

                are not mutually exclusive to voting in elections for the lesser evil

                I agree with that. This case though, presents two very evil options. You guys have been legalizing child labour again, building a theocracy and doing an ethnic cleansing in the middle east under the supposed lesser evil. They are accelerating fascism regardless of who wins, vote if you will but other avenues must be pursued if you are to keep your thin veil of civility.

                • agamemnonymous
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  5 months ago

                  Who is “you guys”? What point are you trying to make with this both-sides stuff? Child labor and theocracy are exclusively being pushed by the Republicans, no Democrats are doing that. Even in the middle east, Democrats are tiptoeing through a nasty web of geopolitics, while it’s the Republicans who want to glass Palestine. Neo-Libs have a lot of problems, but it’s simply deranged to imply they’re anywhere near as evil as MAGA.

                  • umbrella@lemmy.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    5 months ago

                    geopolitics is no excuse for the things being perpetrated inside but especially outside the us, currently by democrats. if the us made a bad judgment and found itself losing the situation, financing a literal genocide to avoid losing is not a justifiable thing to do here.

    • JimSamtanko@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      5 months ago

      When the choice is between the lesser evil, and losing our democracy, having our LGBTQ+ friends and family lose their rights to exist and feel good in their own skin, our sisters, mothers, and daughters losing their body autonomy…

      I’ll take the lesser evil- ANY FUCKING DAY YOU ASK.

    • explodicle
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      5 months ago

      But NOW we’ll start organizing… more than we had been previously! I swear we won’t declare victory and do basically nothing political at all for the next 4 years.