Imo, the larger problem seems to be the majority of users appear to be fine with ads and data collection a lax and ineffective regulation.
“Voting with your wallets” is a false premise dreamed up by corporate to avoid govt regulation and has not and will never be a real thing that works in this world of monopoly and lack of option.
It only works in competition which we don’t have for the most part.
Instead we have the illusion of choice through multiple brand product names. There’s a couple choices, sure, but few enough to function as an effective monopoly.
You can either vote with your wallet or do nothing
I don’t want to fight here, we agree. In fact i bet we agree on a lot. But VWYW is, i can not stress this enough, not a thing. If it ever was in our lifetimes, it ain’t now. Its time the phrase was dropped outta everyone’s mouth.
You can purchase something that thru your effort does not do most of the awful things you are trying to avoid, that’s being a smart customer. It’s not like I’m dismissing the entire idea behind VWYW, just that it is simply that now, it’s an idea that doesn’t work with the facts on the ground.
The power of our “wallet ballots” gets lower when Monopoly power gets higher. Monopoly power is very high. VWYW power is in this world, in this moment, not a thing.
My point, is a simple but strident one. VWYW is not voting! It just isn’t.
It has absolutely no effect on the world around us. Puts no pressure on companies. Is not a thing except in our heads. It is time to let go of the idea.
And yeah…working people like you and me have no power period. “Voting with your wallet” is now simply a power fantasy pushed by capitalists to keep regulations at bay and held by the powerless clinging to an illusion of agency.
I don’t agree but you can either vote with your wallet or mindlessly consume.
One is better than the other but yeah 80% of spending is not really discretionary… Gonna need to get a rental, gonna need healthcare, transports education etc
But you can stop drinking soda for example… It ain’t much but it is something.
I … think i understand what you’re saying. You don’t agree with my definition of VWYW? I don’t wanna assume, but i think maybe you define it as reckless vs thoughtful spending?
Mine has to do with the effectiveness of our purchases in driving market trends. They do not.
You don’t have to buy a subscription to Netflix, but deciding not to isn’t changing anything for anyone (besides saving you 15 bux).
After nearly three years of price increases, signs that buyers have had enough are starting to mount. On Thursday, the food and beverage giant PepsiCo reported a 0.5 percent decline in revenues in the second quarter in its Frito-Lay snack business from year-ago levels, a result of a 4 percent drop in volumes in the category.
I think maybe we voted with our wallets against $6 chips but you could probably convince me otherwise in a paragraph :)
Well sir I’m always down for a nice discussion, you had me at hello. But youre in trouble if you only wanted a paragraph 🤣
Your link is great evidence to your point. It absolutely does reinforce the idea, with evidence that voting with your wallet does indeed affect change. I should say also my point isnt VWYW doesn’t ever work but that it has very little power.
I’d like to suggest that same article also helps mine, at least some.
Point being it shows VWYW (at the consumer level) didn’t have the power to stop the inflation of chips in the first place. Leaving aside the illusion of choice, the current system has taken the power of VWYW out of our hands almost completely.
The fact that PepsiCo even has that kind of market power is beyond question at this point right?
I’m not saying anything controversial if i take it further, that supply chains between our bag of chips and Pepsico, (distributors, grocery stores etc) are also consolidated, yeah?
At each step of the process, market consolidation reduced the ability of the companies within that chain to VWTW, and they pass the costs on down to the next link who also has no ability to VWTW. At the end of this chain we sit with our wallets, but the power has been diminished before we got to open them. Just like the lesser evil, VWTW becomes a choice of voting between ALL chips that cost more across the board or no chips at all.
That’s what i mean when i say VWYW in this system, at this time, is meaningless.
Yeah that’s well put. All this advocacy for adblockers and not accepting the awful state of things fall on deaf ears, most people don’t care, they accept the state of things as it is, and technology as magic.
But that’s the thing. To play the devil’s advocate:
Should expect/demand better
Should they? Says who? Us - who to most people are - “weird computer people” for knowing how to navigate an excel spreadsheet?
We know it sucks. But they’re entitled to think it’s fine, especially since we’ve made so much noise about this for the past decade that it’s hard to imagine anyone is uneducated still.
“Liberating” the masses in this manner seems like a crusade up the alley of Don Quixote.
Average users will not have the knowledge or patience for work arounds.
Imo, the larger problem seems to be the majority of users appear to be fine with ads and data collection just to watch a movie or series.
Imo, the larger problem seems to be
the majority of users appear to be fine with ads and data collectiona lax and ineffective regulation.“Voting with your wallets” is a false premise dreamed up by corporate to avoid govt regulation and has not and will never be a real thing that works in this world of monopoly and lack of option.
It only works in competition which we don’t have for the most part.
Instead we have the illusion of choice through multiple brand product names. There’s a couple choices, sure, but few enough to function as an effective monopoly.
I notice OP said
And you agreed with him, but I’d like to point out you’re talking about one country
Monopolies are really really bad for consumers and are strictly regulated in modern countries
deleted by creator
You can either vote with your wallet or do nothing…
Working people have no way to lobby government, shortage of a revolution, real people make decisions for benefit of other real people.
NPCs are just here to enrich them both.
I don’t want to fight here, we agree. In fact i bet we agree on a lot. But VWYW is, i can not stress this enough, not a thing. If it ever was in our lifetimes, it ain’t now. Its time the phrase was dropped outta everyone’s mouth.
You can purchase something that thru your effort does not do most of the awful things you are trying to avoid, that’s being a smart customer. It’s not like I’m dismissing the entire idea behind VWYW, just that it is simply that now, it’s an idea that doesn’t work with the facts on the ground.
The power of our “wallet ballots” gets lower when Monopoly power gets higher. Monopoly power is very high. VWYW power is in this world, in this moment, not a thing.
My point, is a simple but strident one. VWYW is not voting! It just isn’t.
It has absolutely no effect on the world around us. Puts no pressure on companies. Is not a thing except in our heads. It is time to let go of the idea.
And yeah…working people like you and me have no power period. “Voting with your wallet” is now simply a power fantasy pushed by capitalists to keep regulations at bay and held by the powerless clinging to an illusion of agency.
I don’t agree but you can either vote with your wallet or mindlessly consume.
One is better than the other but yeah 80% of spending is not really discretionary… Gonna need to get a rental, gonna need healthcare, transports education etc
But you can stop drinking soda for example… It ain’t much but it is something.
People don’t have to pay subscriptions either…
I … think i understand what you’re saying. You don’t agree with my definition of VWYW? I don’t wanna assume, but i think maybe you define it as reckless vs thoughtful spending?
Mine has to do with the effectiveness of our purchases in driving market trends. They do not.
You don’t have to buy a subscription to Netflix, but deciding not to isn’t changing anything for anyone (besides saving you 15 bux).
I think maybe we voted with our wallets against $6 chips but you could probably convince me otherwise in a paragraph :)
Well sir I’m always down for a nice discussion, you had me at hello. But youre in trouble if you only wanted a paragraph 🤣
Your link is great evidence to your point. It absolutely does reinforce the idea, with evidence that voting with your wallet does indeed affect change. I should say also my point isnt VWYW doesn’t ever work but that it has very little power.
I’d like to suggest that same article also helps mine, at least some.
Point being it shows VWYW (at the consumer level) didn’t have the power to stop the inflation of chips in the first place. Leaving aside the illusion of choice, the current system has taken the power of VWYW out of our hands almost completely.
The fact that PepsiCo even has that kind of market power is beyond question at this point right?
I’m not saying anything controversial if i take it further, that supply chains between our bag of chips and Pepsico, (distributors, grocery stores etc) are also consolidated, yeah?
At each step of the process, market consolidation reduced the ability of the companies within that chain to VWTW, and they pass the costs on down to the next link who also has no ability to VWTW. At the end of this chain we sit with our wallets, but the power has been diminished before we got to open them. Just like the lesser evil, VWTW becomes a choice of voting between ALL chips that cost more across the board or no chips at all.
That’s what i mean when i say VWYW in this system, at this time, is meaningless.
Yeah that’s well put. All this advocacy for adblockers and not accepting the awful state of things fall on deaf ears, most people don’t care, they accept the state of things as it is, and technology as magic.
People deserve better and should expect/demand better.
But that’s the thing. To play the devil’s advocate:
Should they? Says who? Us - who to most people are - “weird computer people” for knowing how to navigate an excel spreadsheet?
We know it sucks. But they’re entitled to think it’s fine, especially since we’ve made so much noise about this for the past decade that it’s hard to imagine anyone is uneducated still.
“Liberating” the masses in this manner seems like a crusade up the alley of Don Quixote.
deleted by creator
They’re not “fine with ads and data collection” so much as they don’t care and can’t be bothered to look for a better way.
It’s just apathy and a bit of lazy inertia.
This implies they are fine with it by tacit agreement.
No, it implies that they don’t understand that there is an option.
and i bet if most users would not put up with that, they would remove hdmi ports.