• JohnDClay
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    2 days ago

    What do you define as propaganda? Anything could be if your definition is too broad.

      • JohnDClay
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        2 days ago

        From the first one

        The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.

        Sounds like it’s referring to any marketing or public communications from any company government or individual. I’d qualify that as overly broad.

        • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          2 days ago

          In some languages “advertising” and “propaganda” are the same word, and not for nothing. Bernays worked in both advertising and politics. It’s the same set of tools whether its to sell cigarettes or war.

          • JohnDClay
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            2 days ago

            Would all rhetoric (persuading people) be propaganda? I think that makes the word useless.

              • JohnDClay
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                1 day ago

                It’s describing all communication, good and bad. This conversation we’re having right now would be propaganda.

                  • JohnDClay
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                    1 day ago

                    And you’re communicating, which makes your comment propaganda. Or is it only propaganda when it’s to political ends?

            • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              2 days ago

              Rhetorical exchange between two people is one thing, mass persuasion is quite another, though they are not entirely unrelated.

              • JohnDClay
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                2 days ago

                So would any speech to a bunch of people be propaganda? What makes something propaganda?

        • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
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          2 days ago

          Hollywood’s role is propagate the owner class views upon the wagie population to create obedience with a few exceptions… And they don’t make those movies anymore.

          Lastime they did it was jocker and elites go to scared that they ensured to ruin the prequel. That vibe changed real quick lol

          • JohnDClay
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            2 days ago

            Hollywood’s role is to make money. They do that by making movies that appeal to people so that they’ll pay for them, while not alienating their funding. There isn’t some top down directive to portray oligarchs well, it’s just part of the ballance. Another factor is that directors, at least established ones, tend to be rich, so they have that perspective in their work.

            • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              2 days ago

              The profit motive certainly is a major aspect, maybe even the largest, but there’s more going on than just that. For instance, the US military-intelligence-industrial complex gets directly & indirectly involved, and this is well documented.

              • JohnDClay
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                2 days ago

                Through money. They don’t let people film with their equipment unless they have some say in the outpout. But again, it isn’t a conspiracy, it’s factors and pressures that sometimes effect the output.

                • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                  2 days ago

                  Okay sure, they conspired, but again, it’s not a conspiracy 😂

                  It seems like you’re jumping through hoops to maintain some kind of Panglossian, high school civics worldview.

                  Michael Parenti, Dirty Truths:

                  Those who suffer from conspiracy phobia are fond of saying: “Do you actually think there’s a group of people sitting around in a room plotting things?” For some reason that image is assumed to be so patently absurd as to invite only disclaimers. But where else would people of power get together – on park benches or carousels? Indeed, they meet in rooms: corporate boardrooms, Pentagon command rooms, at the Bohemian Grove, in the choice dining rooms at the best restaurants, resorts, hotels, and estates, in the many conference rooms at the White House, the NSA, the CIA, or wherever. And, yes, they consciously plot – though they call it “planning” and “strategizing” – and they do so in great secrecy, often resisting all efforts at public disclosure. No one confabulates and plans more than political and corporate elites and their hired specialists. To make the world safe for those who own it, politically active elements of the owning class have created a national security state that expends billions of dollars and enlists the efforts of vast numbers of people.

                  • JohnDClay
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                    2 days ago

                    Conspiracy I take as being secretive. I think this strategy is publicized.

            • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
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              2 days ago

              That’s how censorship works in practice… Profit motive and ownership structure is just the American way of doing it.

      • JohnDClay
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        2 days ago

        I’d define propaganda as misconstruing the truth towards political ends. If it’s commercial ends rather than political, it’s false advertising. If it’s not misconstruing, then it’s advertising or public communications. Just to set a baseline.

        I can’t find what your sources are defining as propaganda from a brief look, let’s compare to my definition.

        • NSRXN (insurrection)@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          1 day ago

          it doesn’t need to be misconstrued. the best propaganda imho is totally true and in context. spreading it with some kind of political goal is still propaganda.

          • JohnDClay
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            1 day ago

            Cool, I wouldn’t call that propaganda, but we can work with that.

            Do the Captain America movies have an irl political goal? What would it be?

              • JohnDClay
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                17 hours ago

                I have seen them, and the government is the bad guy, with the overreach of public surveillance being major topic. You’ll need to be more specific, but that would probably entail watching them.

      • JohnDClay
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        2 days ago

        I don’t think that’s a good definition, since Holocaust documentaries would be propaganda since it makes America look like the good guys.

        • 🏴 hamid abbasi [he/him] 🏴@vegantheoryclub.orgOP
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          2 days ago

          That would definitely be propaganda since it was the Soviets who actually did all the work while the American’s ratlined the Nazi’s into their country, allowed them to transform their government institutions, consolidated power during the red scare and became a Nazi Empire over the next 80 years.

          • JohnDClay
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            2 days ago

            Let me get this right, your saying all reporting on the Holocaust is propaganda?

            • 🏴 hamid abbasi [he/him] 🏴@vegantheoryclub.orgOP
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              2 days ago

              I’m saying everything you know about everything is propaganda. Try reading books, specifically by Bernays then come back to this conversation.

              You fucking yank libs with your bullshit exasperations - Let me get this right, lol have you ever read a book? You don’t need to reply, I know the answer and I blocked you because I don’t have time to be libsplained, just posting memes that you’re proving right.

              • JohnDClay
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                2 days ago

                I think any books I’ve read you’d call propaganda, I’m not sure what you wouldn’t call propaganda.

                • finder@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  Well you see, American propaganda is cringe, while my superior vintage Soviet propaganda is based.

                  Hoped this comment was helpful :)

      • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 days ago

        So only bad guys solve murder cases?

        Good guys let random vicious murders on the loose.

        I should trust an obvious propaganda expert , but I don’t know…

        • funkless_eck
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          2 days ago

          I mean you ever see The Wire? In the first season the “heroes” beat the shit out of bystanders so much a child loses an eye. They then go on to solve murders.

          • daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            1 day ago

            I haven’t see the wire. But I don’t remember they doing that in CSI Miami, they just solved murder cases in ingenious ways.

            For some people CSI is like extreme propaganda. Then they proceded to eat a literal propaganda video from a terrorist group that’s literally murdering people and justifying why they are murdering people and be cool with that. The other guy literally threatened me over that, it’s crazy.