Good for them, but I know a dozen towns that are big enough you can’t, or the only store wouldn’t be in realistic walking distance for at least half the residents.
And even those that can, you have to either be in good health. So it isn’t like your parents (or anyone’s) will always be able to walk to the grocery.
There is no such thing as a town that’s too legitimately big for walking but too small for transit. Any example you think you can give is actually an example of fucked-up priorities and incompetent planning.
You are right, I just wanted to point out, that trains aren’t the only possible option. For people who can’t walk, there might be bicycles and mobility scooters instead, which also do not take up too much space.
You do realize that if you can’t walk, you aren’t very likely to be riding a bike either.
Nor are either a very viable grocery conveyance.
Even assuming a big backpack, and a large basket on the scooter or bike, you can’t do much shopping. So you’re now expecting people with mobility issues to go more often, spend more time tramping around a store, with their already limited stamina and resources.
That’s not even mentioning that a mobility scooter has limited range, and requires maintenance that anyone needing one is unlikely to be able to do themselves. Which means another trip somewhere to get that done.
Look, not everyone thinks about this stuff until they have no choice in the matter. But not only did I take care of the elderly, dying, and disabled for a living for twenty years, I stopped doing that because I’m disabled now too. And us cripples have communication.
I’m straight up telling you that anyone unable to walk to a store is not going to be able to make do with bikes and scooters. It just ain’t happening on any kind of regular basis unless you live somewhere that the stores are under a five minute walk, and even then that’s going to be a horrible time any foul weather days.
When you’re having mobility issues serious enough to need a scooter or chair, you aren’t in a situation where haring off to a grocery store every few days is sustainable. It just isn’t.
There’s this thing called the spoon analogy. It’s a disability thing you run into.
Every day, we wake up with some spoons. Everything we do costs spoons.
The typical healthy person starts out with the usual number of spoons. You start with 20. Getting your shower costs a spoon. Walking to work costs a spoon. Shopping costs a spoon. Cooking costs a spoon. You get the idea, I assume.
Well, us cripples start the day with 15, or even less. Getting the shower costs two. Shopping costs two. Cooking costs three. Again, I’m confident you get the idea.
That’s the thing that nobody ever considers. Once you reach a point where you would have access to a mobility scooter or chair, you’re spending spoons left and right. You can’t just stop by the store on the way down the block from the bus that dropped you off after work. Every task costs. So you have to do your shopping in big batches. You’re also going to be fixed income most of the time, so shopping in bulk is pretty much the way you have to shop to be able to keep a realistic budget.
Now, there’s ways to fix all of that. But it ain’t something you fix by public transport. Doesn’t matter if there’s a bus or light rail when just waiting for the damn things is a spoon from your supply. Then the ride is slower, so that’s another.
The way to fix that that’s the most kind is to subsidize shopping delivery the way you’d set up parcel post. Or set up shared transport that ferries the disabled directly to and from places in a realistic, bearable time frame. You could maybe hybridize that.
It’s all fine and good to improve the clusterfuck that is transportation and infrastructure. Gods, please, we need it bad. But we can’t pretend that trains and buses are going to magically fix it all, or that the same fixes that will work in a city will work everywhere else, or vice versa.
Nobody wants to ban people from taking a car if they reasonably need it to get around. Or even just want to use it.
But if alternatives are actively pursued, it’ll end up better for everyone. Bikes, pedestrians and public transport cause way less traffic per person per mile. And usually cheaper (in terms is tax dollars spent), too.
And shorter distances between homes and stores will also reduce the length of the car trips.
It’s incredulous to me that people will still frame this issue as “car drivers will lose”.
I’m straight up telling you that anyone unable to walk to a store is not going to be able to make do with bikes and scooters.
Yeah that’s bullshit.
Sure, there may be some people for which that is true, but anyone unable to walk to a store can’t go by bike? I know for certain that’s not true: one of my mates ex-GF had issues walking, certainly couldn’t walk to the store. She had no problem cycling though. She used a 3-wheeled e-bike. Cycling is much easier than walking, you spend way less energy, especially with electric assistance, and there’s trikes for those who have balance issues.
Go watch any busy street anywhere in the Netherland and count how many elderly people you see on bikes. You’ll be amazed.
that’s going to be a horrible time any foul weather days.
Like any Dutch mom would say to their kids complaining about having to cycle in the rain: you aren’t made of sugar, are you?
The way to fix that that’s the most kind is to subsidize shopping delivery the way you’d set up parcel post.
You don’t have online grocery shopping with free next-day delivery there? Hell, we have 10-minute delivery on groceries if you’re willing to pay a bit extra. (Delivery is done by bike, of course).
Or set up shared transport that ferries the disabled directly to and from places in a realistic, bearable time frame. You could maybe hybridize that.
That also exists, at least in my country. It’s run by volunteers and you only pay a small fee (mainly to cover fuel costs).
Bus and train will reduces the dependence on cars by a big margin and allow people that really need a car to move around to not be stuck in traffic.
The goal is to remove the most car possible on the road. I live in an area where everything is walkable and going downtown is well served by light rails, and I still have a car for when I need it (kids, big items), but otherwise I use walking/light rail.
But you are right that it won’t fix everything. Suburbs as they are today shouldn’t exist. They cost a lot to maintain versus the density of people and create a big dependance on cars.
So if we have medium/high density cities with rural towns and no suburbs, then the rural people can take their car because they need it, and people living in the city can walk and take the transit. But it will overall greatly reduce the number of cars on the road, which is a lot better than keep doing what we do right now.
Good for them, but I know a dozen towns that are big enough you can’t, or the only store wouldn’t be in realistic walking distance for at least half the residents.
And even those that can, you have to either be in good health. So it isn’t like your parents (or anyone’s) will always be able to walk to the grocery.
There is no such thing as a town that’s too legitimately big for walking but too small for transit. Any example you think you can give is actually an example of fucked-up priorities and incompetent planning.
You are right, I just wanted to point out, that trains aren’t the only possible option. For people who can’t walk, there might be bicycles and mobility scooters instead, which also do not take up too much space.
You do realize that if you can’t walk, you aren’t very likely to be riding a bike either.
Nor are either a very viable grocery conveyance.
Even assuming a big backpack, and a large basket on the scooter or bike, you can’t do much shopping. So you’re now expecting people with mobility issues to go more often, spend more time tramping around a store, with their already limited stamina and resources.
That’s not even mentioning that a mobility scooter has limited range, and requires maintenance that anyone needing one is unlikely to be able to do themselves. Which means another trip somewhere to get that done.
Look, not everyone thinks about this stuff until they have no choice in the matter. But not only did I take care of the elderly, dying, and disabled for a living for twenty years, I stopped doing that because I’m disabled now too. And us cripples have communication.
I’m straight up telling you that anyone unable to walk to a store is not going to be able to make do with bikes and scooters. It just ain’t happening on any kind of regular basis unless you live somewhere that the stores are under a five minute walk, and even then that’s going to be a horrible time any foul weather days.
When you’re having mobility issues serious enough to need a scooter or chair, you aren’t in a situation where haring off to a grocery store every few days is sustainable. It just isn’t.
There’s this thing called the spoon analogy. It’s a disability thing you run into.
Every day, we wake up with some spoons. Everything we do costs spoons.
The typical healthy person starts out with the usual number of spoons. You start with 20. Getting your shower costs a spoon. Walking to work costs a spoon. Shopping costs a spoon. Cooking costs a spoon. You get the idea, I assume.
Well, us cripples start the day with 15, or even less. Getting the shower costs two. Shopping costs two. Cooking costs three. Again, I’m confident you get the idea.
That’s the thing that nobody ever considers. Once you reach a point where you would have access to a mobility scooter or chair, you’re spending spoons left and right. You can’t just stop by the store on the way down the block from the bus that dropped you off after work. Every task costs. So you have to do your shopping in big batches. You’re also going to be fixed income most of the time, so shopping in bulk is pretty much the way you have to shop to be able to keep a realistic budget.
Now, there’s ways to fix all of that. But it ain’t something you fix by public transport. Doesn’t matter if there’s a bus or light rail when just waiting for the damn things is a spoon from your supply. Then the ride is slower, so that’s another.
The way to fix that that’s the most kind is to subsidize shopping delivery the way you’d set up parcel post. Or set up shared transport that ferries the disabled directly to and from places in a realistic, bearable time frame. You could maybe hybridize that.
It’s all fine and good to improve the clusterfuck that is transportation and infrastructure. Gods, please, we need it bad. But we can’t pretend that trains and buses are going to magically fix it all, or that the same fixes that will work in a city will work everywhere else, or vice versa.
Nobody wants to ban people from taking a car if they reasonably need it to get around. Or even just want to use it.
But if alternatives are actively pursued, it’ll end up better for everyone. Bikes, pedestrians and public transport cause way less traffic per person per mile. And usually cheaper (in terms is tax dollars spent), too.
And shorter distances between homes and stores will also reduce the length of the car trips.
It’s incredulous to me that people will still frame this issue as “car drivers will lose”.
Yeah that’s bullshit.
Sure, there may be some people for which that is true, but anyone unable to walk to a store can’t go by bike? I know for certain that’s not true: one of my mates ex-GF had issues walking, certainly couldn’t walk to the store. She had no problem cycling though. She used a 3-wheeled e-bike. Cycling is much easier than walking, you spend way less energy, especially with electric assistance, and there’s trikes for those who have balance issues.
Go watch any busy street anywhere in the Netherland and count how many elderly people you see on bikes. You’ll be amazed.
Like any Dutch mom would say to their kids complaining about having to cycle in the rain: you aren’t made of sugar, are you?
You don’t have online grocery shopping with free next-day delivery there? Hell, we have 10-minute delivery on groceries if you’re willing to pay a bit extra. (Delivery is done by bike, of course).
That also exists, at least in my country. It’s run by volunteers and you only pay a small fee (mainly to cover fuel costs).
Bus and train will reduces the dependence on cars by a big margin and allow people that really need a car to move around to not be stuck in traffic.
The goal is to remove the most car possible on the road. I live in an area where everything is walkable and going downtown is well served by light rails, and I still have a car for when I need it (kids, big items), but otherwise I use walking/light rail.
But you are right that it won’t fix everything. Suburbs as they are today shouldn’t exist. They cost a lot to maintain versus the density of people and create a big dependance on cars.
So if we have medium/high density cities with rural towns and no suburbs, then the rural people can take their car because they need it, and people living in the city can walk and take the transit. But it will overall greatly reduce the number of cars on the road, which is a lot better than keep doing what we do right now.
Are these elderly people driving to the grocery store? That doesn’t really seem much safer.
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