What surprises (and worries) me is that, for his popularity to plunge, he had to have it. So he was popular among gen z’s. How can someone that young think trump is a good choice is something I can’t fathom.
They came of age during Trump’s first presidency, when he inherited a lot of gains made under Obama’s tenure. They saw things go to shit during Biden, who inherited both a pandemic and the consequences of Trump’s actions, and was a bit lackluster in dealing with them.
They simply didn’t have the life experience to see the bigger picture beyond that. Trump seemed like a good president because their lives were better during his presidency, but correlation does not equal causation.
He’s already mentioned sending illegal immigrants he can’t deport to Guantanamo, and already treats them basically like terrorists when deporting them.
That’s the unregulated island I was talking about, he’s already sent around 100 and the families can’t get a hold of them or know how they’re doing. He didn’t even release the names, one of the pubs had to dig into it.
Wonder what the under/over is on how long we have before reports of sexual abuse and/or child trafficking comes out of those he has had kidnapped away there.
Remember during his last presidency when the girls were separated from the boys and shipped somewhere? People won’t hear about it because of all of the firehose distraction, won’t believe it, or won’t know what to do about it if they do believe it.
Abuse of women and girls was rampant during his child separation days in his first term, and like that, the stories will eventually make it out of Gitmo just like the shit they did to the “terrorists” there. And like that, if anything is actually done, it’ll fall on a few patsies and then out of the news and onto something new unfortunately. We have very short attention spans in the US, and the news has even shorter ones.
I find it hard to believe an 18 year old can’t see the evil narcissist in Trump. You’d have to embrace that evil to vote for him.
Hatred of LGBT, emigrants, any people who need help, even victims of natural disasters. He blatantly made fun of a handicapped reporter for his handicap!!
It’s good you got wiser, but you can’t put this down to just being gullible.
4 years ago they were just barely Beyond being a tween. Likely being raised by your average indoctrinated American parents. Who don’t talk about politics or current events. Despite seeing all the things going on around them never understanding why. Or caring to find out. Because that’s not what school teaches. Not what Society teaches.
You don’t have to “know” anything to see Trump is a sociopathic malignant Narcissist. Even when not knowing the words for it. That should be clear for all people who are normal. I’d say you should also be able to see it as a 15 year old.
Even a child should be able to grasp that Trump is not a nice man.
The problem in USA however may be that society as a whole is sick, where individual freedom is praised like a religion, and narcissism is widely seen as the ultimate individualism, making it a virtue. While being a decent human being respecting the rights of others, is seen as Woke and being a Socialist and evil.
You’re assuming the average person even watches the news or coverage of such things. And if you keep assuming that you’re going to be confused and have a bad time like you currently are.
After school and they come home and watch YouTube videos on Minecraft Roblox or the latest rap beef. They aren’t watching Hassan or vaush. Hell they aren’t even watching the YouTube clips from the cable news networks. They are completely disengaged from reality and current events. Being engaged in all those things is not something that average people value. They should. But ragging on them saying that they’re blind if they don’t see it. That’s just it they are blind. They don’t see the coverage of it at all. They’re not missing some nuance. They’re missing the coverage completely. Short of making Civics and politics cool with the youth. That’s not going to change either.
Yet they commit to go vote?
Also your argument basically boils down to that they trust other uninformed people more than people who are better informed.
This may be possible, because the other uninformed people are their equals.
So Idiocracy is in our nature, it’s inevitable?
Problem is the uninformed should chose just about 50/50 because it’s mostly random, then the theory is that those who are better informed, should tilt the balance to the best option.
So why doesn’t it work?
It’s their right. Unless you’re advocating arm taking away their rights. I would argue that we should heavily focus on education instead.
Until such time as we can instill in the average person the desire to be informed and think critically. Yes it’s basically Human Nature.
As an anarchist in a red state. I tried to do my best to keep those around me informed and dispel misinformation. Because if anything goes down or something is to happen. It’s the people around us that we’ll have to rely on. Most of them don’t want to hear it however. And just shut down. Especially the trumpers. They’re particularly easy to shut down. Since there’s no evidence of any of their beliefs. Which is exactly why they shut down.
Even the anti-trump ones have low tolerance for discussing it. For Generations it’s been a taboo/gauche thing to do talking politics publicly. Though they do generally agree with me.
When you’re 18 you have a nearly fully developed brain but almost zero experience of the adult world (which was graciously shielded from them by adults who deep down know the adult world fucking sucks).
I love them. I envy them. They absolutely should have the vote. Their perspective is invaluable. They have to be in the conversation and at the table.
But like… They’re still incredibly naive, generally speaking.
No. You must acknowledge it. When i was 18 i also voted for a party in good faith. A few years later i learned that they are absolute assholes and should be in jail. I simply didn’t understand the concepts and motives before.
Podcasts are super popular right now. Theo Von, Joe Rogan, Kill Tony, Shane Gillis, Matt McCusker all have a huge audience. They are all pro Trump; Tony famously spoke at a Trump rally, and Rogan is constantly pushing a pro conservative message.
Social networks have all gone to the right, as their leadership stands to benefit. Most of our major newspapers and entertainment networks are also owned by billionaires.
They own the messaging right now, and people aren’t thinking critically because they are either distracted or don’t know how.
Part of it is that the left isn’t seen as fun. We’re too serious and judgmental all the time. Many times there’s good reasons for that but young people don’t want to constantly hear about taxation and proper pronoun usage. Talk about legalizing LSD or something once in a while.
And yes, I understand that the right isn’t fun in a way that most people would want to be but there is definitely something to be said for not gatekeeping language to an absurd degree. Let people express themselves without all the “well actually that’s ableist because…” interjections. People only listen to you a finite amount. If you burn through your educational goodwill on minor stuff no one is going to listen when you warn them about important stuff like fascists taking over the government.
Up until the week or two before Biden dropped out blue no matter who folks were talking about what a great candidate Joe was, even though he appeared to have dementia during the debate. Folks on lemmy were accusing me of being a Russian bot for criticizing Biden.
The Dems are a cult just as much as the maga folks…
I don’t know if I was one, but I’ll own it. I’m not even a fucking Dem, I was (am) just that fucking terrified of President Trump. I didn’t think there was enough time to select another candidate, and I would literally rather elect a vegetable than Trump.
The only possible candidate was Harris, and I didn’t think we would rally to her as well as we did. I was wrong. I was wrong about a lot this election.
After Biden dropped out, I was all in on Harris. She was literally the only other option. But also, she was a damn good candidate for probably a month. Until she refused to distance herself from Biden on Gaza. But idk what happened behind the scenes. Probably big money pulled her aside and told her she’ll back his policies or lose $100m.
I don’t know. It didn’t matter. Maybe Kamala lost because she is a woman and some things America just isn’t ready for yet. Maybe she lost because she fucked up. Maybe it was the economy and no one but Trump was ever even in the running (honestly what I believe).
It certainly wasn’t Gaza alone. Demographics prove that. Didn’t even cost her Michigan by itself. But it was a blowout across the map.
I doubt Biden would’ve won either, so it didn’t matter. At the end of the day, him dropping out didn’t help us (maybe down ticket? Idk…)
I don’t think I accused anyone specifically of being a foreign agitator, except one person who very clearly was not American and trying to pass themselves off as American and was trashing Biden and immediately pivoted to trashing Harris (“the ONE person worse than Biden!” Right…).
But if I did in my desperate attempt to support whoever was running against Trump, then I apologize. Those were contentious times. Fighting times. Now we all just have to survive the next four years and help one another the best we can.
Criticizing Biden is fine, and should be encouraged. Criticizing the only other option to the shitshow you have now during the active portion of an election cycle is poor strategy, and the current administration is the result of that strategy.
I don’t think Gillis is pro-Trump from clips I’ve seen over the last ~6 months? Maybe I’m wrong, but I get the impression he’s just deeply apathetic. Theo Von I honestly dunno–and I’m not entirely sure he knows because I think he’s just kind of dumb guy (but relatively aware of it, in contrast to Rogan).
How can someone that young think trump is a good choice is something I can’t fathom.
Lack of experience seeing these kinds of people.
I once saw someone explain Trump’s popularity…
Cityfolk can tell that this guy is a useless yapping businessman who probably doesn’t know shit, and is probably going to rip you off and stab you in the back at any opportunity he gets (maybe just for fun).
People in rural areas haven’t had as many opportunities to interact with these kinds of people, so they aren’t on high alert.
The reason those scummy business people are so successful is because they’re charismatic (in a way), they’re confident, and they give answers that people want to hear (even if it’s a fabrication).
Confident, charismatic people that say what people want to hear? He’s going to get a lot of votes. Especially from the people who don’t know how to detect that.
Then there’s the fact that Trump blames his enemies for his failings, combined with various psychological factors in the voters (sunk-cost? Being blind to their own lack of knowledge?)… he’s able to maintain his status amongst his cult.
The education system spends a lot of our elementary years inducting us into the propaganda engine. We pledge allegiance to the flag and learn about how we won the west and how we beat off the British.
You slowly get ideas that that’s all kind of BS throughout school. Once you get out into the real world you get disillusioned if you’re lucky. You either follow the propaganda, or you think he’s just another in a long line of assholes. The American dream is a pipe dream you don’t love anything That’s likely coming for you in life so why not watch it burn, It seems to be pissing a bunch of people off which is an unexpected amount of power.
And it’s all perfectly fine right up until the point where you yourself are burning and scared for what little you’re given in life.
I’m in my 40s. I spend a lot of time at the bar. I see a lot of 20-somethings talking pro-Trump or just thinking it’d be funny to vote for him to “shake things up”.
I’ve yet to see anyone express regret yet though. I do see a lot more red hats. I do have to resist murder.
During the election I assumed that the younger cohort was lock-step opposed to trump — until — my college age daughter told me that many of her school friends were probably voting for him. I was absolutely flabbergasted and had to reset a lot of assumptions I’d settled into. During the first trump administration, I was clinging to the expectation that younger generations would be our saviors, but I can no longer count on that.
They made huge inroads chasing the incel community. The left wants to dismiss actual young male issues because men have historically had the upper hand, but there are actual things causing hardship for the, and being repeatedly told to suck it up because someone who looks like them didn’t have those problems does not keep them in your corner.
Twitter was well-known to be infested with bots when it was sold to Musk. It turns out, that made it much more valuable to a rich asshole who wants to sway elections.
Sean Hannity and other right-wing talking heads are always shitting on “legacy media”, because they are pushing the “new media” that is full of bots, fake accounts, and more easily manipulated young people.
Social media and their engagement maximizing algorithms.
GenZ don’t watch TV or read print media so almost 100% of their news is getting filtered through an algorithm that has the sole purpose to keep them hooked. Hell, even search results are biased. One really has to go out of their way to get facts outside of a personalized feed.
GenZ are definitely not the reason we have a buffoon as a president and a psychopath as his controller. This article about GenZs changing their views says more about their willingness to think critically than all the older voters who have chosen not to despite the 2017-21 hell.
What surprises (and worries) me is that, for his popularity to plunge, he had to have it. So he was popular among gen z’s. How can someone that young think trump is a good choice is something I can’t fathom.
They came of age during Trump’s first presidency, when he inherited a lot of gains made under Obama’s tenure. They saw things go to shit during Biden, who inherited both a pandemic and the consequences of Trump’s actions, and was a bit lackluster in dealing with them.
They simply didn’t have the life experience to see the bigger picture beyond that. Trump seemed like a good president because their lives were better during his presidency, but correlation does not equal causation.
Because young people are gullible and weren’t paying attention when he was president before.
Source: I was a young gullible millennial who voted for him in 2016
He’s funny and “crazy” until he builds concentration camps on an unregulated island and start breaking our government to the point of no return.
He’s already mentioned sending illegal immigrants he can’t deport to Guantanamo, and already treats them basically like terrorists when deporting them.
That’s the unregulated island I was talking about, he’s already sent around 100 and the families can’t get a hold of them or know how they’re doing. He didn’t even release the names, one of the pubs had to dig into it.
Edited to add source: https://www.commondreams.org/news/trump-guantanamo-bay-illegal
Wonder what the under/over is on how long we have before reports of sexual abuse and/or child trafficking comes out of those he has had kidnapped away there.
Remember during his last presidency when the girls were separated from the boys and shipped somewhere? People won’t hear about it because of all of the firehose distraction, won’t believe it, or won’t know what to do about it if they do believe it.
Abuse of women and girls was rampant during his child separation days in his first term, and like that, the stories will eventually make it out of Gitmo just like the shit they did to the “terrorists” there. And like that, if anything is actually done, it’ll fall on a few patsies and then out of the news and onto something new unfortunately. We have very short attention spans in the US, and the news has even shorter ones.
Already mentioned? It happened already. They’re there. It took them only 2 weeks to get to operating concentration camps.
I find it hard to believe an 18 year old can’t see the evil narcissist in Trump. You’d have to embrace that evil to vote for him.
Hatred of LGBT, emigrants, any people who need help, even victims of natural disasters. He blatantly made fun of a handicapped reporter for his handicap!!
It’s good you got wiser, but you can’t put this down to just being gullible.
4 years ago they were just barely Beyond being a tween. Likely being raised by your average indoctrinated American parents. Who don’t talk about politics or current events. Despite seeing all the things going on around them never understanding why. Or caring to find out. Because that’s not what school teaches. Not what Society teaches.
You don’t have to “know” anything to see Trump is a sociopathic malignant Narcissist. Even when not knowing the words for it. That should be clear for all people who are normal. I’d say you should also be able to see it as a 15 year old.
Even a child should be able to grasp that Trump is not a nice man.
The problem in USA however may be that society as a whole is sick, where individual freedom is praised like a religion, and narcissism is widely seen as the ultimate individualism, making it a virtue. While being a decent human being respecting the rights of others, is seen as Woke and being a Socialist and evil.
You’re assuming the average person even watches the news or coverage of such things. And if you keep assuming that you’re going to be confused and have a bad time like you currently are.
After school and they come home and watch YouTube videos on Minecraft Roblox or the latest rap beef. They aren’t watching Hassan or vaush. Hell they aren’t even watching the YouTube clips from the cable news networks. They are completely disengaged from reality and current events. Being engaged in all those things is not something that average people value. They should. But ragging on them saying that they’re blind if they don’t see it. That’s just it they are blind. They don’t see the coverage of it at all. They’re not missing some nuance. They’re missing the coverage completely. Short of making Civics and politics cool with the youth. That’s not going to change either.
Yet they commit to go vote?
Also your argument basically boils down to that they trust other uninformed people more than people who are better informed.
This may be possible, because the other uninformed people are their equals.
So Idiocracy is in our nature, it’s inevitable?
Problem is the uninformed should chose just about 50/50 because it’s mostly random, then the theory is that those who are better informed, should tilt the balance to the best option.
So why doesn’t it work?
It’s their right. Unless you’re advocating arm taking away their rights. I would argue that we should heavily focus on education instead.
Until such time as we can instill in the average person the desire to be informed and think critically. Yes it’s basically Human Nature.
As an anarchist in a red state. I tried to do my best to keep those around me informed and dispel misinformation. Because if anything goes down or something is to happen. It’s the people around us that we’ll have to rely on. Most of them don’t want to hear it however. And just shut down. Especially the trumpers. They’re particularly easy to shut down. Since there’s no evidence of any of their beliefs. Which is exactly why they shut down.
Even the anti-trump ones have low tolerance for discussing it. For Generations it’s been a taboo/gauche thing to do talking politics publicly. Though they do generally agree with me.
Of course it is, but it’s not a requirement, so why do they bother if they have near zero interest?
When you’re 18 you have a nearly fully developed brain but almost zero experience of the adult world (which was graciously shielded from them by adults who deep down know the adult world fucking sucks).
I love them. I envy them. They absolutely should have the vote. Their perspective is invaluable. They have to be in the conversation and at the table.
But like… They’re still incredibly naive, generally speaking.
You aren’t gullible. You just weren’t listening.
No. You must acknowledge it. When i was 18 i also voted for a party in good faith. A few years later i learned that they are absolute assholes and should be in jail. I simply didn’t understand the concepts and motives before.
Yeah, any dumbass 18 yo could see exactly who and what trump was. How it didn’t end on the 2015 campaign trail still blows my mind.
When he made fun of a reporter’s disability and called POWs losers? Absolutely should have ended right then and there.
Yeah I was thinking somewhere around there or when he started calling for “his” border wall. So obviously just racist bullshit.
Podcasts are super popular right now. Theo Von, Joe Rogan, Kill Tony, Shane Gillis, Matt McCusker all have a huge audience. They are all pro Trump; Tony famously spoke at a Trump rally, and Rogan is constantly pushing a pro conservative message.
Social networks have all gone to the right, as their leadership stands to benefit. Most of our major newspapers and entertainment networks are also owned by billionaires.
They own the messaging right now, and people aren’t thinking critically because they are either distracted or don’t know how.
Part of it is that the left isn’t seen as fun. We’re too serious and judgmental all the time. Many times there’s good reasons for that but young people don’t want to constantly hear about taxation and proper pronoun usage. Talk about legalizing LSD or something once in a while.
And yes, I understand that the right isn’t fun in a way that most people would want to be but there is definitely something to be said for not gatekeeping language to an absurd degree. Let people express themselves without all the “well actually that’s ableist because…” interjections. People only listen to you a finite amount. If you burn through your educational goodwill on minor stuff no one is going to listen when you warn them about important stuff like fascists taking over the government.
Up until the week or two before Biden dropped out blue no matter who folks were talking about what a great candidate Joe was, even though he appeared to have dementia during the debate. Folks on lemmy were accusing me of being a Russian bot for criticizing Biden.
The Dems are a cult just as much as the maga folks…
Edit for grammar
I don’t know if I was one, but I’ll own it. I’m not even a fucking Dem, I was (am) just that fucking terrified of President Trump. I didn’t think there was enough time to select another candidate, and I would literally rather elect a vegetable than Trump.
The only possible candidate was Harris, and I didn’t think we would rally to her as well as we did. I was wrong. I was wrong about a lot this election.
After Biden dropped out, I was all in on Harris. She was literally the only other option. But also, she was a damn good candidate for probably a month. Until she refused to distance herself from Biden on Gaza. But idk what happened behind the scenes. Probably big money pulled her aside and told her she’ll back his policies or lose $100m.
I don’t know. It didn’t matter. Maybe Kamala lost because she is a woman and some things America just isn’t ready for yet. Maybe she lost because she fucked up. Maybe it was the economy and no one but Trump was ever even in the running (honestly what I believe).
It certainly wasn’t Gaza alone. Demographics prove that. Didn’t even cost her Michigan by itself. But it was a blowout across the map.
I doubt Biden would’ve won either, so it didn’t matter. At the end of the day, him dropping out didn’t help us (maybe down ticket? Idk…)
I don’t think I accused anyone specifically of being a foreign agitator, except one person who very clearly was not American and trying to pass themselves off as American and was trashing Biden and immediately pivoted to trashing Harris (“the ONE person worse than Biden!” Right…).
But if I did in my desperate attempt to support whoever was running against Trump, then I apologize. Those were contentious times. Fighting times. Now we all just have to survive the next four years and help one another the best we can.
Criticizing Biden is fine, and should be encouraged. Criticizing the only other option to the shitshow you have now during the active portion of an election cycle is poor strategy, and the current administration is the result of that strategy.
Nah. Criticize when it is deserved and also give credit where it is deserved.
Otherwise you’re just like the cable news networks pushing false narratives.
I don’t think Gillis is pro-Trump from clips I’ve seen over the last ~6 months? Maybe I’m wrong, but I get the impression he’s just deeply apathetic. Theo Von I honestly dunno–and I’m not entirely sure he knows because I think he’s just kind of dumb guy (but relatively aware of it, in contrast to Rogan).
Lack of experience seeing these kinds of people.
I once saw someone explain Trump’s popularity…
Cityfolk can tell that this guy is a useless yapping businessman who probably doesn’t know shit, and is probably going to rip you off and stab you in the back at any opportunity he gets (maybe just for fun).
People in rural areas haven’t had as many opportunities to interact with these kinds of people, so they aren’t on high alert.
The reason those scummy business people are so successful is because they’re charismatic (in a way), they’re confident, and they give answers that people want to hear (even if it’s a fabrication).
Confident, charismatic people that say what people want to hear? He’s going to get a lot of votes. Especially from the people who don’t know how to detect that.
Then there’s the fact that Trump blames his enemies for his failings, combined with various psychological factors in the voters (sunk-cost? Being blind to their own lack of knowledge?)… he’s able to maintain his status amongst his cult.
The education system spends a lot of our elementary years inducting us into the propaganda engine. We pledge allegiance to the flag and learn about how we won the west and how we beat off the British.
You slowly get ideas that that’s all kind of BS throughout school. Once you get out into the real world you get disillusioned if you’re lucky. You either follow the propaganda, or you think he’s just another in a long line of assholes. The American dream is a pipe dream you don’t love anything That’s likely coming for you in life so why not watch it burn, It seems to be pissing a bunch of people off which is an unexpected amount of power.
And it’s all perfectly fine right up until the point where you yourself are burning and scared for what little you’re given in life.
Because people see him as a disruptor. They think that if they change things radically, they will end up on top.
I’m in my 40s. I spend a lot of time at the bar. I see a lot of 20-somethings talking pro-Trump or just thinking it’d be funny to vote for him to “shake things up”.
I’ve yet to see anyone express regret yet though. I do see a lot more red hats. I do have to resist murder.
To be fair, if they are 18 now and voted for the first time they were 10 when he was first elected.
During the election I assumed that the younger cohort was lock-step opposed to trump — until — my college age daughter told me that many of her school friends were probably voting for him. I was absolutely flabbergasted and had to reset a lot of assumptions I’d settled into. During the first trump administration, I was clinging to the expectation that younger generations would be our saviors, but I can no longer count on that.
Some of them are really, really smart, but most of them are dumber than we are. It’s just like every generation at that age.
They made huge inroads chasing the incel community. The left wants to dismiss actual young male issues because men have historically had the upper hand, but there are actual things causing hardship for the, and being repeatedly told to suck it up because someone who looks like them didn’t have those problems does not keep them in your corner.
He somehow gained support with gen Z from 2016->2024.
Technically it just needed to be non-zero. You can lose popularity even if you’re already pretty unpopular.
Twitter was well-known to be infested with bots when it was sold to Musk. It turns out, that made it much more valuable to a rich asshole who wants to sway elections.
Sean Hannity and other right-wing talking heads are always shitting on “legacy media”, because they are pushing the “new media” that is full of bots, fake accounts, and more easily manipulated young people.
Echo chambers are a hell of a thing
People are stupid and selfish. That’s human nature.
Social media and their engagement maximizing algorithms.
GenZ don’t watch TV or read print media so almost 100% of their news is getting filtered through an algorithm that has the sole purpose to keep them hooked. Hell, even search results are biased. One really has to go out of their way to get facts outside of a personalized feed.
GenZ are definitely not the reason we have a buffoon as a president and a psychopath as his controller. This article about GenZs changing their views says more about their willingness to think critically than all the older voters who have chosen not to despite the 2017-21 hell.